I had a conversation with the Owl a few days ago and he mentioned that he placed some geocoins in caches on a vacation and ALL of them disappeared from the caches without being logged. I just placed a TB coin in a cache in Maine and the coin promptly disappeared from the cache.

This issue has been discussed before, but I fear the problem is growing as more geocachers have personalized coins made. The problem is that certain trade items and TB's (primarily coins) seem to encourage larceny, and if we attract too many larcenous folks to geocaching, that's a major problem. I think this is already a problem in other areas of the country.

Consider this as a set of suggestions ... not rules.

1) No more TB coins in caches ... they all get stolen anyway ... why encourage larceny.

2) No designated coin trade caches ... these get cleaned out pretty quickly from what I have seen.

3) If you place a personal coin in a cache, or trade coins in a cache, or place some other type of unique or valuable trade item, don't mention it in the log. Let it be a surprise for the next hunter.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy finding these coins and other unique signature items in geocaches, especially when it is a surprise find. So make it a surprise.

And I repeat ... these are SUGGESTIONS.

I agree with #3 we do not mention it in logs what we leave.

We are attempting to do #2 and hopefully it will work for a bit with the way we are going to set it up, only time will tell. But it is true I have seen these type caches get plundered.

I would be sad if #1 happened I love to find TB coins in caches and love to place them out to travel. We have several traveling right now that have some impressive miles on them.

Maybe it is a problem, we have had coins go missing and have left coins with no mention of trades from any of the finders after us. I guess I don't have an answer to the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by CharlieP:
1) No more TB coins in caches ... they all get stolen anyway ... why encourage larceny.

Change "all" to "some".

Check out the activated trackables in my profile. Of the ones clearly marked as travellers, only some are missing. Many have and are travelling still. Some have gone off radar only to resurface months and even years later.

I think it's all in how activated coins are marked to begin with. Having holes in them with traveller tags on them definitely seems to encourage them being left in circulation versus in someone's collection. Also, it depends on the knowledge of the cacher who picks up the traveller. You would be surprised at how many newbies pick them up and move them to another cache, but somehow miss the logging portion of them.

I got this one Joe.

Not all of the coins that Owl Dropped were inappropriately logged. One of the Coins In I think South Dakota??? was picked up by JoeBids who then moved it to another cache in another state and did log it properly. Also the coins Owl put out were not travel bug coins but personal coins. So they could be pulled from the cache and kept (after a fair trade). So I just wanted to put that out there first before this discussion gets accusatory. (is that a word???)

I agree with you charlie. I am ashamed of those that raid a cache and pillage the coins. It is an abhorrent behavior.

I have personal coins. And I don't drop them very often. And when I do, I don't put it in my logs. I do realize that I can't guarrantee that the next finder will trade evenly or even trade anything for it. What I do know is that the next finder will take it. So I pretty much know who has got the coins I left...It's not a secret. If the next finder says it isn't in there, then someone who has previously found the cache or the owner took it. I believe if the next finder makes no mention of the coin and says "tnln" 9 times out of 10 that ain't true. I hate to be this cynical about my fellow cachers, but a few people who forgot the golden rules of caching have ruined it for everyone.
I also had a travel bug depot that turned into some Gwinnett cacher's personal coin store. He or she would raid it anytime a coin showed up on the page. So I changed the name, moved the cache, requested travel bugs to not be left there and then made it members only. That seemed to have slowed things down some.

Those cachers who think people don't know that they "steal" coins, are sorely mistaken.

I hate to think someone would risk their character over a stupid coin.

This is my only post on this subject so if I don't answer any "corrections" ...yes I'm ignoring it.

There may be some good cachers out there still.
After Owl made a coin drop of one of my coins on his trip out west, I got this email from a cacher in Alpine, Wy.

**************
I just picked up one of your coins. It has your name and title on one side, and North Georgia Mountains on the other side. I was surprised to see that it was not trackable.
I did a little looking to find you, but when I did, I liked reading your bio.
Thanx
CBW

P.S. Any information on this coin?

****************

I answered him with the history of the coin.
and let him know he could keep it.

quote:

Originally posted by johnnie:
There may be some good cachers out there still.

I think there are a lot of good geocachers out there ... maybe 99%. But 1% of a very large number is still a large number.

And I did forget that Owl told me that JoeBids found one of the coins, so not all of them went unloggged. But I am not trying to start a discussion, just making a few suggestions. I will follow my own suggestions, and also probably will not pick up any more TB coins ... like the doc said, if it hurts when you bend your arm, don't bend your arm.

CharlieP is reporting accurately. The coin Joebids had found and logged was the coin we left in Sundance, WY. The caches I was referring to were an urban cache in Findley, Ohio, a traditional cache in a remote location on the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, a second Wyoming cache in the opposite corner of the state, and the world’s oldest cache, “Mingo” in Kansas (it seemed appropriate since this WAS an “Old Geezer” coin).

Of these caches, all except one received multiple log entries and none mentioned a coin being taken so it was a pretty sure bet that the coins had disappeared from them unlogged. The exception was a cache in southwestern Wyoming way out in the boonies that was located off a trail about a quarter mile up a mountain side. It was a little hard to get to and to find. This is the cache that had the coin johnnie received the email about.

I also received an email about the coin dropped in the Michigan UP cache. This cacher was asking if we really put a coin in the cache because he went after it and the coin was gone. Presumably, he found no other entry in the logbook.

What I concluded from this was, we won’t be buying geocoins in large quantities but we may continue to buy a few from time to time and leave them is carefully selected caches. The selection criteria for Hannah and I is basically caches in a scenic and remote location. The folks that are willing to put a little effort into hunting a cache seem to be the ones that play the game honestly.

Of course, the reality of it all is if you put anything in a geocache, you have just given it away.

I'll give my perspective... And mine comes from a lot more observing over the years than actively participating.

I have a strong sense of fair play, and I hate a thief. Some things I've seen are nothing short of theft. We now live in a society that is too self centered to support an "honor system". Sadly, I think the majority do play by the rules, but it only takes a handful who dont to spoil it for everyone.

I think not logging the items that are a tempation is the best plan all around. Personally, I always log what I take. But i do NOT always log what I leave or ALL of what I leave. I try to leave a cache in better shape than I found it. Even I take nothing, I'll typically leave an item or two that suits the area.

I'd love to do something like a DVD swap cache like I've seen in other areas of the country. And I'm in a unique position to do so as I regularly get promo stuff from studios. I often have DVDs before they're released. Only reason I have not done it though is because my fear is the frustration of it being completely empty or filled with gumball machine trinkets within a month.

And coins....at some point I'll have a coin, but I can pretty much guarantee that most people wont know it until they open a cache on top of a mountain in the middle of nowhere and see it for the first time. I guess I'm old school, I dont really care to play too much in the buying and selling of coins. I'd rather find 'em in the wild. And for me I actually enjoy putting things in a cache that I think someone might be surprised and happy to find in the future. Kinda like Christmas, as I've gotten older I enjoy giving gifts a heck of a lot more than receiving them.

Unfortunately there are a handful out there who obvious enjoy it more the other way around.

Personally, I don't really have too many expectations in cache containers anymore. I used to look at a cache and think it'd be a hoot to retrieve that neat TB only to find that it had been taken already and not logged. I don't necessarily log my takes/tooks, but I will state most times that I "TN left goodies". Dragonflydreams (Kathleen) and I hit up our SWAG sources at least every other cache run or so.

We recently left some coins in a cache in Iowa. It was pretty scenic in the cache area plus a decent hike. It was Worthy of a johnnie coin and a Georgia Light house coin of which I mention in my log. DFD left her coin labeled as "Ding a ling". That's 3 coins in there now. Recently a cacher DID state that he "took all three". He did state that he left 3 TB's and something...but it sure sounded greedy to me. Plus he made a shi@ty short log on this really nice geocache.

I want to write him of my disgust, but I must remind my self of something said above: "...the reality of it all is if you put anything in a geocache, you have just given it away." That works for me most of the time.

See: Corner of Iowa
.

quote:

Originally posted by Owl1959:
Of course, the reality of it all is if you put anything in a geocache, you have just given it away.

When I have placed my unactivated coins in caches, I know this is exactly the case. I expect that the next person will possibly take the coin and leave nothing in return. It is going to happen. I have actually written to a few cache owners and have told them my coin is in their cache and if they want to go get it as a token of my appreciation, have at it. Some have. Those really made me feel good. Even better is when someone writes about the coin, not sure what to do with it. I tell them they can do what they want and it is my gift. I never post in the log that I leave one. It is totally a chance find.

I have a traveling 2006 GGA coin that I released in Japan, thinking that it would have a better chance of visiting lots of caches and not being stolen if it were overseas. And the Japanese cachers were great - they posted nice logs and lots of pictures. But an American tourist brought it back to a cache in Indiana, and sure enough, the first person who took it kept it for over four months. He did put it in a cache when I prodded him by email. It's back in circulation and is in a cache in Alaska now. I know it won't last forever, and I can't help wishing that it had stayed in Japan longer.

I have come to the #3 conclusion by Charlie P as well. On occasion, I will place a very good trade item in a cache that really deserves one, Even if I don't take anything. And usually I don't mention it unless the cache just needs some visits. Luckily only one of my coins have been kept. But on a slight side note, its my 'bugs that seem not to get logged. And unfortunately its not in a far off state, its in our own. I've had to replace three brand new ones their first time out. Mostly newbies, but sometimes its veterent cachers who just don't take the time to log them. So now I don't release anymore, and I keep the ones that I pick back up.

Redemption perhaps?

The cacher who aquired the geocoins I left in an Iowa geocache went and activated it, made a goal to make it to one of my caches and invited me to adopt it at any time.

Georgia Geocachers 2006 Geocoin

.

Oh well, for what its worth, I noticed today that the missing geocoin that was the trigger for this thread was finally logged months later. I feel better now. I can tolerate absent-mindedness much better than thievery. Now where did I put my GPS - I know it is here somewhere.

But I still think my suggestons are applicable.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CharlieP,

I have given up trading anything when caching alone. With the family we do trade, as the girls like it. I try to insist on fair trades.

I do move TBs along, esp. Jeeps.

I'm ambivalent about unactivated travel coins. I have taken two of them in the past, activated them, and put them in caches. One, a 2006 GGA coin, has had a reasonable trip since then. The other, one of Erik's, is resting in Forest Rescue, where it will take some effort to retrieve it. I think that inb the future I will leave all coins alone, as they seem to cause more grief than they deserve.

Coins are one of the items I enjoy the most about caching. I've release a bunch of them and, while some have gone missing, most are still traveling. I released a Prague geocoin in June 2006 with a goal to go to Prague and return. It has made it to Prague and is now in New Zealand, on its way back. It's been fun to watch it and my other coins.

My first coin went missing from the cache I placed it in. I was pretty steamed that it was stolen but ultimately figured that a certain percentage of coins was inevitably going to go missing that it was just a cost of doing business, so to speak, and not worth getting upset about. Then the coin turned up in Rhode Island nine months later and is now over in Europe. So you never know.

My approach to my geocoins is to view them somewhat like NASA views a space probe. Once released, I don't expect to ever see it again but I hope keeps going for a long time. Some do, some don't, obviously. I take a philosophical approach and just enjoy the ones that are still moving.

IMHO,and I know I'm really still a rookie,I believe "it's the nature of the beast" that causes the problem.Most of the trackable items are truly works of art in miniature,and attractive items.If the name of the game is for an item to travel,a wooden nickel could travel just as well.But the collectable Geocoins certainly have a following and rightly so,the collecting, swapping,buying,and selling of coins have a place in the hobby,but if you place them in a cache,know you're taking a chance with the seamier side of the Geocache population. The " rogues and the scoundrels".Life's a *****,and full of 'em.
PPP

The last time I counted my wife and I had placed about 50 activated traveling coins and around 100 unactivated coins in caches. Like others have noted some of the coin have gone missing or have been stolen.

I am not going to let the ones that are missing dictate how many more I place in caches. It is not these (the missing coins) that I remember it is the coins and TBs that travel to places I have never gone or will never have a chance to travel to that I remember. I for one will continue to put out a few coins at worthy caches.

The last time I looked I had two coins that had traveled over 10,000 miles each. This is not that far by TB standards but pretty good for coins and I have enjoyed every mile.

I am not victim and I am not going to let the actions of a thief dictate what I do.

quote:

The last time I looked I had two coins that had traveled over 10,000 miles each. This is not that far by TB standards but pretty good for coins and I have enjoyed every mile.

I have 3 that have gone over 10,000 and two of those are over 15,000. It's been fun to watch them travel.