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it is closer than .1 mi to another cache is one guideline that was not quiet met.(But that is not a problem for me

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When I hid the cache I had the GPS set to "Go to" the nearest cache. I was careful to move over .1 mile away from it, or so I thought. There were other criteria I was working within too. I did not want the number "six" to be in the coords, for example, for reasons I'd rather not go into. It wasn't until I got everything together late at night that I realized that the cache was actually about 33 feet under the .1 mile limit. At that point I didn't think it was a big deal.

Actually one person (who will remain nameless) did find it w/o the coords, but I doubt it would have made a difference if it were a bit farther from the other cache.

~erik~

I don't think 33 feet is a problem. You just need to get a variance from a geocaching.com approver. I think you have close ties to at least one.



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Some of those that wander are lost!

This brings up a question I was posing to myself after finding Pamela's Dog Cache recently.

There is another cache in the same park that is a multistage puzzle cache and whose listed coords are quite a distance from both the initial stage and the final cache position. Although I'm pretty sure that the two caches are at least 500' apart, it would have been conceivable that they would end up very close if the second cacher hadn't solved the first one.

So, do the approvers know the actual positions of mystery/puzzle caches and are able to determine when caches are too close together?

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So, do the approvers know the actual positions of mystery/puzzle caches and are able to determine when caches are too close together?

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In the approval process we have several tools at our disposal. There is a list of nearest caches and distances automatically displayed at the base of the submitted cache page. We also see a map with nearby caches displayed. The "Note to Approver" field allows the cache owner to submit the final cache coords for a multi, but that note is deleted after the cache is approved.

Some individual approvers maintain their own databases of all the stages of all caches they've approved. I don't have time for that.

It's really only becomes an issue when there's either danger of a cache being found by accident or if cache saturation becomes excessive.

An extreme example of the first case is this archived cache. I think I was the only person to ever find it the right way, but several people found the final stage while looking for my EZ2C cache.

An extreme example of cache saturation might be the virtual caches on the Mall in Washington DC. If they weren't virtual you'd trip over them all unless the .1 mile rule was enforced.

If I see a mystery cache in the approval queue that I might want to hunt I'll ask the North Carolina approver to review it for me, or just ask the cache owner to reassure me that it's not in a state or national park, within .1 miles of another cache, buried, next to RR tracks, etc.
Gotta trust people to do the right thing without trying to micromanage IMHO. Every now and then we screw up, but most times it's not a problem.

~erik~

Well, I had smugly thought I had solved this one but checked my solution against that 33 feet and it was way off. Hmmm, maybe I need to look at this again ... whoa ... how about that ... that's sneaky! I am beginning to understand the tar and feathers at the last GGA meeting. I hope to get over that way soon and see if I have this right, but I have a plan B if it is not where my coords put me.

I carefully did not mention which guildline so that it wouldn’t be a spoiler. Of course with this reply I have given four hidden hints. Of course you and Erik have to decode them to see what I am giving away.

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Some of those that wander are lost!

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Originally posted by ~erik~:
In the approval process we have several tools at our disposal. ... Some individual approvers maintain their own databases of all the stages of all caches they've approved. I don't have time for that.

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This brings a question to mind, but it probably belongs in a different thread.
http://ggaonline.org/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=7156023341&f=7446039551&m=1526038095&r=1526038095#1526038095

If I had not already solved the puzzle and located the cache this thread would truly bother me! Unfortunately in the humorous banter back and forth over this truly exceptional cache I think the challenge has been all but eliminated for anybody that still wanted to do this cache. Most of this stuff should have been handled off board between Erik and the various posters.

Bad Cachers!!!! Bad!! Lets not give so many clues that it no long makes the hunt fun for everybody else. I found immense pleasure in figuring out the thing by myself and would not have had the same gratification if I had the benefit of all of these veiled clues.

Enough said.

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Originally posted by LostNfound:

Bad Cachers!!!! Bad!! Lets not give so many clues that it no long makes the hunt fun for everybody else. I found immense pleasure in figuring out the thing by myself and would not have had the same gratification if I had the benefit of all of these veiled clues.

Enough said.

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I agree with LostNfound on this.
the fun is gone.

It appears to me the most “useful” hints are those Erik himself gave. I am sure that from reading here and the cache description that he thought it would be easy to decode. But it just kept going over our heads, and he just had to pretty much beat the rest of us over the head for it to sink in. My hints like most of my hints about any cache are more a tease than a hint and you have to dig it out, which I did just to see if anyone would take the time to dig them out. While I think of them as teases, I would remove them leaving the visible text, but the forum will not let me.

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It appears to me the most “useful” hints are those Erik himself gave.

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You're right Allen, and I wish I could remove them..... but that probably wouldn't be fair to those who haven't found the cache yet.

I guess I'll just have to do better next time.


~erik~

Some of those that wonder are last!

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Originally posted by ~erik~:
An extreme example of cache saturation might be the virtual caches on the Mall in Washington DC. If they weren't virtual you'd trip over them all unless the .1 mile rule was enforced.

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I've not been to Washington to hunt for caches, but downtown Greenville has the oddest (relatively) local saturation problem that I know of. Standing a This Cache (a virtual), there are two other virtuals (both visible from this spot) within 120 feet. Another multi stage virtual passes within a 200 foot radius. Three other caches are at the "approved" distance of .1 miles. Two of the really close virtuals were approved the same day, and I've often wondered how something like that happens (I write it off as another great unsolved mystery).

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Originally posted by TinSparrow:
Three other caches are at the "approved" distance of .1 miles. Two of the really close virtuals were approved the same day, and I've often wondered how something like that happens (I write it off as another great unsolved mystery).

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My guesses are
a] There wasn't always a distance guideline.
b] Two on the same day might have had different approvers working the approval que and each checked to see if any were close and there wasn't so each approved the cache they were working on.

But I got to admit the search results do look funny. Especially since currently a virtual has a travel bug.

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Originally posted by Allen Lacy:
...Especially since currently a virtual has a travel bug.

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Especially since the travel bug is a virtual travel bug.

Can I log a virtual find on a virtual TB in a virtual cache if I can find the bug from a Google search, virtually?

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Originally posted by Trailerman:
Can I log a virtual find on a virtual TB in a virtual cache if I can find the bug from a Google search, virtually?

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You should be able to virtually log it

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Standing a This Cache (a virtual), there are two other virtuals (both visible from this spot) within 120 feet. Another multi stage virtual passes within a 200 foot radius.

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I'm afraid I was personally responsible for approving each and every one of those caches.

That was prior to the current guidelines against lame virts and caches too close together. It was the backlash against caches like those that thankfully led to the guidelines being implemented.

In my defense, there was another lame virt 94 feet from the target coords that was not approved. Back then the criteria was that you shouldn't accidentally find one cache while looking for another. Having a lame virt 71 feet from another, and a third 106 feet from the first, was questionable, but throwing in another one between cache two and three was just too much, even for back then!

~erik~

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Originally posted by ~erik~:

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Standing a This Cache (a virtual), there are two other virtuals (both visible from this spot) within 120 feet. Another multi stage virtual passes within a 200 foot radius.

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I'm afraid I was personally responsible for approving each and every one of those caches.

That was prior to the current guidelines against lame virts and caches too close together. It was the backlash against caches like those that thankfully led to the guidelines being implemented.

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It's always great to have an insight into what drives the creative process.

Good morning class, please open your text books to page 84 (not meant to be a direct clue to any cache) and let's examine the case of Erik, an early Geocaching.com approver.

In the early days the cache placement guidelines were very different from what they are today, and it was possible to place caches in a manner that would horrify contemporary cache hunters. As an approver early on, Erik was forced to approve (against his better judgement) many lame virtual caches. As we have already seen with other great artists, reaction to such a negative experience is likely to manifest itself several ways.

First and foremost, we find that Erik stopped hunting virtual caches. Having already been forced to read and evaluate many virtual concepts, he could no longer bring himself to visit the various markers and statues for the sake of picking off the third word in the second line and sending an email. He probably considered many of these virtuals to have importance only to the hider (i.e. Fallen Soldiers), and his only work in this area (1832) is an cynical commentary on this observed trend.

The second result that we find (and this speaks more to the political side than the artistic side) is that the Geocaching.com guidelines were changed. Actually they went through numerous changes. While the guidelines of that period are an anonymous document and no specific attributions are given, we are forced to consider that all approvers would have had a hand in shaping the evolving guidelines, so Erik's voice would be present in any new guidelines that further enforced the ethics of good cache placement.

So while Erik stopped hunting virtual caches and became active in politics to prevent them from occurring so frequently, this was not enough, and once again we see the reaction and emotion reflected in the work of the artist. In Erik's case, even though he was acting within the guidelines early on, he was still forced to approve lame virtuals, and he carried with him what the Germans call Die Zustimmunglahmvirtuelschuld (literally: approval lame virtual guilt). His inward reaction to this guilt was to create non-vacation caches of staggering difficulty as he attempted to balance the world as he saw it. Examples of this can be seen in his works Latitude and Longitude and The Invisible Cache, but one should not overlook A Painful Introspection which only children can find.

Remember test tomorrow. You are responsible for everything in the text from Picasso to Erik. I'll be in my office during regular hours this afternoon. The coordinates for my office can be found on the board. Class dismissed.

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Die Zustimmunglahmvirtuelschuld

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Yep, you've hit the nail on the head!

I'm getting back on my meds now.

~erik~

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Originally posted by TinSparrow:
...for the sake of picking off the third word in the second line...

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First you have to try to enjoy the bad Vogon poetry in order to hear the second verse, so you can get the keyword to unlock the glass case containing the atomic vector plotter...

Er, what were we talking about?