I spent about an hour with Chief Ranger Scott Pfenninger yesterday discussing geocaching in general and our sport in the 16 parks under NPS jurisdiction. The discussions will continue and I'll provide an update at the GGA meeting 1/11.

In the meantime, there is an issue that really can't wait:

Mr. Pfenninger said a ranger had brought to his attention three caches that were locationally challenged (my polite term):

One is near nesting geese.
One has a social trail running uphill to it.
One is in a structure of some sort and requires removing a part of the structure to get to it.

Since the ranger that brought this to his attention was off yesterday he couldn't tell me which caches these are. For all I know they're all mine, and I'm going to be proactive and check on mine this weekend. They have no problems with people going off trail, but do if social trails and erosion result.

If you have a cache along the Chattahooche please check it. If a social trail has developed or there are other problems please move it a hundred yards or so and update the coords. When I get specifics from Mr. Phenninger about the three caches I'll let you know, but it would be nice to be able to tell him, "we've already fixed them and checked the others."

Lets show the NPS that we're responsible. Besides, it's not much of a challenge to find a geocache if there's already a trail going to it!

Thanks,

~erik~

Three days after meeting with the Chief Ranger at least three caches were confiscated:
Garbageology
Quite Rock
That 70s Cache.

Don't know if a ranger jumped the gun here or what, but I've sent an e-mail to "NPS/CHAT" who logged the caches.

~erik~

the ranger logs at least one of them were dated the 8th. before your visit on the 9th

The 70's cache was logged as pulled on the 8th, but Garbageology and Quiet Rock were logged as pulled on the 6th. They were already logged as pulled when Erik was talking to them.
Hmmmm . . .

Well That 70's Cache is one that I watch, and while the log is dated the 6th, the watch noticed didn't show up until today at Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:02:53 -0800 to be exact. So while it might have been gone when Erik was talking, I don't think there was a log on the cache page to indicate that.

Well, I went out and moved my Cat Cache on Sunday to be proactive. I guess I moved the wrong one. Oh well, hopefully these three caches are the only ones to be confiscated w/o some specific communication. I'm sure we'd all be happy to move any caches that were a problem.

I wonder which one (if any of these three) was the one with the nesting geese near it? Geese don't nest this time of year, but bent_twigs had a suggestion for a cache containerfor that area.

Let's keep our sense of humor. The Chief Ranger struck me as a very reasonable person. I trust my assesment was accurate. Argg, just found a 4th - Cammocache. My sense of humor is diminishing.

~erik~

[This message was edited by ~erik~ on January 13, 2003 at 07:39 PM.]

Cammocache is gone?

Uh, that one was just semi-recently placed, not in an easy-to-get-to location, no social trails, no one in their right mind would intentionally walk there unless they had a GPS (methinks), not to mention it is (was) hidden like a car trunk.

This is a knee-jerk post, off to read geocaching.com now.

Update: Post knee-jerk. Either they pre-stamped cammocache until now, or they just logged it. This cache is nowhere near any of the above-mentioned "problem" areas. Not, at least, that I can tell. Geese don't nest on cliffs, do they? This is a new cache, erosion couldn't be an issue. I really don't get it. This is/was a beatiful site for a cache on ROCK. Unless... the final waypoint "marking" is an issue, but I don't see how it could be, nobody else would find it.

Ok, post-knee-jerk, semi-knee jerk, I'm going to be quiet now.

[This message was edited by Cymbaline on January 13, 2003 at 09:00 PM.]

quote:

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Originally posted by ~erik~:

Mr. Pfenninger said a ranger had brought to his attention three caches that were locationally challenged (my polite term):

One is in a structure of some sort and requires removing a part of the structure to get to it.

---

When you said this at the meeting I thought of Garbageology since it requires removing part of an old wall or foundation to get to it. Sure enough it was pulled today.

I never heard of Cammocache? Which was that one? Not EZ2C was it?

NM I found cammocache

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=42218

Dang that one is quite far from buford dam gues those park spread further that I thought.

I think I'm going to stick to County parks, Stone mountain, roadway oddities, and business parking lots!

I visited my 70's cache eleven days ago to add a new logbook and to perform any needed maintenance. I knew that there were "issues" with the NPS but I thought that my best course of action would be to wait for the much advertised GGA/NPS meeting. As I hiked in, I made a detailed inspection of the area surrounding the container and was pleased to see that despite the 50+ visits in 13 months, there was absolutely no evidence of environmental degradation. Now that my cache has been confiscated, will I be able to regain possession? Will there be a fine or other penalty?? Should I contact NPS/CHAT myself or would it be better to let the GGA speak for us?

FWIW - Jones Bridge "Rock n' Roll" was also confiscated...

quote:

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Should I contact NPS/CHAT myself or would it be better to let the GGA speak for us?

---

I e-mailed NPS/CHAT to ask for an explanation, since it seemed to run counter to the understanding I left the meeting with. I'd give it a few days.
I've got to go out of town 'till Wednesday evening but will monitor e-mail in the evenings and update this forum.
~erik~

I am making arrangements to pull My cache at the Hooch. It should be gone in the next couple of days.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ~erik~:
Let's keep our sense of humor. The Chief Ranger struck me as a very reasonable person. I trust my assesment was accurate. Argg, just found a 4th - Cammocache. My sense of humor is diminishing.

~erik~

---

I can see why your sense of humor could be stretched a bit ... as you were trying to schedule a meeting, the NPS decided to go out and confiscate caches. It could be an internal communications snafu, and then again, it may be the way these folks do business. I am not sure about some of the others, but the 70's cache was in about as harmless a spot as you could find.

With a large government agency I would assume communications snafu until proven otherwise.

Main Entry: sna·fu
Pronunciation: sna-'fü, 'sna-"fü
Function: noun
Etymology: situation normal all fouled up
Date: circa 1941

I went and pulled my "1st Anniversary Cache -- SOAP" today. I am happy to report there were no social trails to the cache at this time. It was in great shape, but I decided to pull it for the short term (hopefully). I have disabled the cache, but I have not archived it yet. The location is a great one and I hope it can be replaced. The indention in the straw can still be seen, so the parks people can see the environment around the cache if they want.

I believe these caches are all still there. I can only assume they are too lazy to remove them, since they are obviously in full view

http://www.engrcompsoln.com/rootweb/NPS_caches.htm

Yup, CammoCache is history. I'da walked up and pulled it myself after hearing Eriks warning, but I'm temporarily out of commision for hiking, and the NPS/CHAT did a fine job on their own. They even logged it one last time ;
" January 12 by NPS/CHAT (0 found)
This cache has been removed by the National Park Service. Geocaching is illegal in Chattahoochee River National Recreation Area."
Not in too great of a hurry to try and recover the thing from them, and Maggie's waiting for the law to track us down.

The last time I went to the Park Rangers office to speak to a ranger about replacing my sticker(lost in a wreck), I got a $50 ticket. I was pretty miffed. So I called to complain and the name they gave me was the officer who had given me the ticket. I said the heck with it and paid the fine. That's the only run-in with the law I want.

[This message was edited by Slayerette on January 14, 2003 at 06:16 PM.]

I sent NPS/CHAT an e-mail thru the geocaching.com site yesterday evening and another thru the link on the Chattahoochee River NRA site this morning. No reply yet to either. I'm out of town on business, will pursue this further when I get back to town. ~erik~

I spoke to the Chief Ranger by phone today. He said their e-mail system has been down for the last two days and he had not gotten my e-mails.

They are still waiting for the Special Use Permit application before the superintendent makes a final determination on geocaching.

With regard to the caches that were removed; there is a bit of a disconnect there. He said he just found out about it a few days ago. Apparently a couple of the rangers had some time on their hands, went to the web, saw them, found them, and removed them. He said he asked them to go back to the web sites and log that they had been removed with the dates that it had been done so no one would look for something that wasn't there. He was pleased to hear that they had followed through with that request.

I asked him to please ask his rangers to consult him before doing this again, and that if he in turn would mention any problem caches to me I'd make sure we'd take care of it. He said the rangers were off on other projects now and that what they did wasn't the start of a wholesale cache removal.

As I was on a cell phone we didn't get into a protracted discussion about those caches, but I trust I can pick them up when I bring them the Special Use Permit.

~erik~