Replicated from the GGA EZBoard:

erik88l r
Administrator
(8/5/02 8:55:25 pm)
I had a dream....

click here

Then I woke up and built this lockable ammobox. The idea is that this be the final stage of a cache hunt in a Ga. State Park. The preliminary stages would be virtual, with the cache hunter finding clues to open the combination lock. The ammobox would be prominantly displayed in the Visitors Center or Interpretive Center. Under the box would be a stack of cache page printouts from www.geocaching.com for that cache. On the back of the pages would be basic how-to's on geocaching and some GGA info.

This would give the parks a new activity for visitors who happen to have a GPS, it would give us some new recruits,
and it would give us a cache to hunt. Watcha think?

~erik~

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lmoseley
BigDog
(8/5/02 11:27:32 pm)
ezSupporter

Re: I had a dream....

That is the sort of thing the Parks people had in mind.

--------------------------------
Resist authority!
Desist, authority!

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erik88l r
Administrator
(8/6/02 6:23:36 am)
Re: I had a dream....

I think what they had in mind was appeasing us. What I have in mind is using their limitations to our advantage.

If a cache container is hidden in the woods the general public would never see it - here they could. I think a locked ammobox on display makes for a pretty compelling hook. Hopefully they would put it on display, not hide it behind a counter.

Now if we could get REI to donate a half dozen Etrex's the park staff could loan those out after taking a security deposit and we'd really be cooking. No, that's going a bit far!

~erik~

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AllenLacy
Magnificent Poster
(8/6/02 6:45:56 am)
Re: I had a dream....

I have mentioned this in e-mail to Erik, but to let the rest of you know, Tallulah Gorge state park is going to let Robert and I put a geocache in the woods. It still needs the lock, with a combination lock (combination to be put on www.geocaching.com). I think it will be a good one, we are putting it on a combination mountain bike/hiking trail. There is a great view of the Gorge from close to the trail.

CODITO ERGO SUM

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the mtn man
and puppymonster
(8/6/02 1:37:56 pm)
Re: I had a dream....

Looks cool. Great Job!
Could you bring on to the next meeting?

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Da Rebel
Magnificent Poster
(8/6/02 2:23:22 pm)
Re: I had a dream....

P'shaw! I like yours better. I did this one just for fun:

(image deleted)

I didn't bother with the new label, btw.

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain

Edited by: Da Rebel at: 8/9/02 7:45:41 pm

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erik88l r
Administrator
(8/6/02 3:49:50 pm)
Re: I had a dream....

I like that matching green & white 'combination lock' you have there. I don't see the numbers but I guess you twist the cap part back and forth to unlock it, huh?

~erik~

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Da Rebel
Magnificent Poster
(8/6/02 4:13:18 pm)
Re: I had a dream....

Yep, that's my secret Geocacher log book lock thingee!

Here's another view of the box. The hardware is riveted on. The hasp is double-hinged.

(image deleted)

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain

Edited by: Da Rebel at: 8/9/02 7:46:12 pm

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erik88l r
Administrator
(8/6/02 5:33:31 pm)
Re: I had a dream....

That looks quite workable. You might want to see if you can dispense with the hinge and just rely on the lock being large enough that you can't open the cam-lock can latch over it.

Essentially that's what I did with the "pin" that's based on a ½" diameter bolt. If I can find some olive drab green paint it'll look like it belongs there

~erik~

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AllenLacy
Magnificent Poster
(8/6/02 7:02:04 pm)
After seeing Erik's before seeing Da Rebel's

This is what I did for the cache box going in the woods in Tallulah Gorge state park.

Picture

I haven't put a label on it yet. Since it is going in the woods I think I will put my standard label as seen in my webpage Preparing a Geocache Container

Oh the reason there is no lock on it, I went by the local Wally World and they were out of combination locks, all the back-to-schoolers had bought them.

CODITO ERGO SUM

Edited by: AllenLacy at: 8/9/02 7:57:19 pm

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Da Rebel
Magnificent Poster
(8/6/02 7:10:49 pm)
Great minds work alike!

The sound you heard after I read Erik's post was a Homer Simpsonesque, "Doh!" With a resulting dent in my forehead!

So, here's what I came up with. Note that on the inside I used an acorn nut to keep little fingers from scraping on a threaded bolt.

(images deleted)
"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain

Edited by: Da Rebel at: 8/9/02 7:46:42 pm

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erik88l r
Administrator
(8/6/02 9:55:53 pm)
Re: Great minds work alike!

I think one thing we seem to have glossed over in this discussion is Allen's statement that he has secured permission to place a cache in the woods in a Ga. State Park.

That is a great step forward! Good work Allen! Now we'd better be sure everyone is very judicious with this cache - we don't want to screw things up!

But back to the ammo boxes - the only possible flaw with the eyebolt is that a persistant thief could probably bend it back and forth until it broke. But if the cache is either very well hidden in the woods or on display in a Visitor's Center that shouldn't be a concern. I guess if someone really wanted to get into a locked ammo box they'd take it home to their hacksaw!

~erik~

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Da Rebel
Magnificent Poster
(8/6/02 10:23:32 pm)
Kudos to Allen!

Yep, that almost did a flyover. I recall him mentioning it. It'll be interesting to see how it works over time.

The eyebolt's pretty good steel. I suspect that the can itself would crack and fail before it gave up. With the nut on the outside, it would be fairly easy to loosen it and give the process a good start. But, give me 10 minutes with a good sized rock, and I'm in. You're right, of course, it would be easier to just rip it off and take it home.

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain

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AllenLacy
Magnificent Poster
(8/7/02 6:48:26 am)
Locked Ammo boxes

I remember reading about an archived cache on www.geocaching.com that was a locked ammo box in an urban park. The idea being only geocachers could open it. However it was found and the lock beat with a rock. It was replaced and then box was beat open with a rock. That was when the hider archived it. I found the cache listing, it was the Metro Pecan in Phoenix. Remember you have to be logged on to geocaching.com to see archived caches.

So the lock is only to appease the Georgia State Park's people. The best protection for the cache will be to hide it in a place that very few if any non-geocachers will go.

CODITO ERGO SUM

Edited by: AllenLacy at: 8/7/02 8:58:45 am

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erik88l r
Administrator
(8/7/02 8:49:52 pm)
Re: Locked Ammo boxes

You are certainly right - nothing beats a well hidden cache. As the owner of one that was plundered the damage was negligable since the finder just opened it, took what he wanted, made some rude comments in the log book, put in some dried up dog crap, and closed it back. If it had been locked and chained to a tree it would have ended up like the cache in Phoenix.

What I found a little odd about that one is that the first person to discover it vandalized logged a no-find, but three others came at monthly intervals there after and logged a smiley after seeing the remains. I guess it's still a find even though it's not all there.

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AllenLacy
Magnificent Poster
(8/7/02 9:07:55 pm)
Re: Locked Ammo boxes

Well I have had two "plundered" but in both caches the thieves took the ammo box and left nothing. So a lock wouldn’t have helped. A lock also means that if it is accidently found, that the person finding it will not see the geocaching letter, so it might actually make more likely to be taken.

People use different rules for recording finds including finding where they think it was even if they find nothing. Doesn't bother me, I get a feel for what a cacher considers a find by reading their logs, I just reserve the right to snicker at them. My rule for physicals is if I sign the log, it is a find, (note if just the log book is missing I carry a spare so I can sign it and place it in the cache ). With a destroyed cache and missing logbook I would have log it as a no find, but that is just me.

CODITO ERGO SUM

Edited by: AllenLacy at: 8/8/02 1:14:29 pm

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erik88l r
Administrator
(8/8/02 4:33:55 pm)
Re: Locked Ammo boxes

Now I'm tempted to stick the geocaching letter on the outside of the ammobox covered in tape to keep it dry.

Maybe also add something like "Container contains happy meal toys and other trinkets with an estimated total value of under $5." That probably wouldn't deter the average plunderer though.

~erik~

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Gossamyrrh
Awe-Inspiring Poster
(8/8/02 9:34:20 pm)
Re: Locked Ammo boxes

actually, slay has something similar on her boxes...a laminated hang-tag.

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erik88l r
Administrator
(8/9/02 7:10:05 am)
Re: Locked Ammo boxes

You're right Goss, I remember seeing one. The tag seemed a bit prominant to me, though. I wonder if anyone sells camo paper to put in my printer???

Hey, I like your new avatar - kinda looks like you.

erik

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Brad Webb
gpsfun
(8/9/02 7:31:45 am)
ezSupporter
Re: Locked Ammo boxes

Erik,

Remember the cloth that I used to camouflage my caches at the Five Cache Stud event? I have some left over, but your printer may not feed it too well...

I'm a little doubtful that signs will deter cache poachers, but how about one that says "Warning - video surveillance in use at this location." That should make them look for a camera to steal...

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Da Rebel
Magnificent Poster
(8/9/02 8:00:29 am)
Camo Paper

Here ya go.

web page

Lots of stores in GA sell it.

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain

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AllenLacy
Magnificent Poster
(8/9/02 8:12:41 am)
Re: Locked Ammo boxes

Several points

1. If the locked box is going into the a Visitors Center or Interpretive Center like Erik's is labeled for, then the geocaching info doesn't have to be affixed to the box. It could be on the flyers that Erik mentioned putting there.

2. If I remember correctly Slayerette's label is a copy of Lewis' Geocache Container Tag available from GGA web page

3. I also think that no label will prevent some people from plundering the cache. But for mine and any future geocaches placed in woods of a state park, I believe that it would be good to have the geocaching information available to a person who wouldn't plunder the cache if they accidentally found it.

I had forgot about Lewis’ tags, maybe I need to alter my standard label to include this information with additions about why it is locked. It is a shame that an accidental finder will not be able to log it. But I need to decide quickly as the cache is going to be placed Sunday.

CODITO ERGO SUM

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Gossamyrrh
Awe-Inspiring Poster
(8/9/02 3:22:49 pm)
Re: Camo Paper

actually...I might be able to help you on the camo paper. My mother once complained about having to design a camoflage wallpaper for a printing job, so she might have the file on snitchable.

The new avatar is me....a little flattering, but self-portraits usually are. The image is a little pixelated and smooshed for my liking, though.

See you guys Saturday ! (if my doughnut-bribery plan works on Slay)

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AllenLacy
Magnificent Poster
(8/9/02 4:59:51 pm)
Avator

But who is Wayne Watkins?

CODITO ERGO SUM

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Gossamyrrh
Awe-Inspiring Poster
(8/9/02 5:57:36 pm)
Re: Avator

the roommate

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AllenLacy
Magnificent Poster
(8/9/02 8:03:52 pm)
Back to Locked Ammo box

Well I put my normal label on one side of the cache and this on the other side.

CODITO ERGO SUM

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Da Rebel
Magnificent Poster
(8/9/02 8:36:17 pm)
Re: Back to Locked Ammo box

Not too shabby.

"An" game?

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain

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AllenLacy
Magnificent Poster
(8/9/02 8:56:44 pm)
Re: Back to Locked Ammo box

I hate when that happens, the spell checker said it was ok.

CODITO ERGO SUM

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erik88l r
Administrator
(8/9/02 9:48:37 pm)
Re: Back to Locked Ammo box

sure, blame it on the poor spell checker! It does look pretty sharp, and I didn't cache the typo until I read it a third time!

~erik~

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slayerette
Super Poster
(8/9/02 10:47:46 pm)
Re: Back to Locked Ammo box

Did Someone say donuts????

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Gossamyrrh
Awe-Inspiring Poster
(8/9/02 11:44:32 pm)
mmm...donuts

call my house in the morning for details!