Lamp post caches - my FAVORITE! Woo Hoo!

quote:

Originally posted by Lakebum:
To that point; this is what bothers me, and why I started this thread to begin with:
If I logged a puzzle cache that I did not figure out on my own, and even if I state in the log I had help, or I stated that somebody gave me the coords, the feeling that I get from this community is that I would be judged in an unfavorable manner, labeled a cheat, a person of low integrity, a bottom dweller, a scurvy dog, and low down no good yellow belly.

I just like to cache. I don’t want to spend time doing puzzles. Who am I hurting? Why should I be judged for this?

If puzzle caches had the option to "click here for the coords" I'm sure some would invest the time to work the puzzle out.

This is what I could find on the GS site->

Mystery or Puzzle Caches.
The "catch-all" of cache types, this form of cache can involve complicated puzzles you will first need to solve to determine the coordinates. Due to the increasing creativity of geocaching this becomes the staging ground for new and unique challenges.

Just a small question... when you asked "Who does it hurt?" pertaining to skipped stages in a multi, And I gave 2 examples...

Why were they seemingly looked over?

Even if you discount the first example as me getting my nose out of joint, the second One really should be addressed. It was an example of where actually winning was important. Where the playing field should have been the same. I understand getting help at the stages because they can't be found... but just not doing them all together well, that's not a fair game. How would somebody like it if the coords to all the GGA challenge caches were given to a cacher the day before. And he took a couple of his friends with him and they went through all the caches. I'm sure their Poker Hands would be winners.

But that would be ok. Cause no one got hurt Right? It's just a game or a hobby.

Now, I'm not sure if this topic is about "being judged" or "who does it hurt". But we judge things everyday. Friends, family, co-workers and strangers all do things we judge either good bad or don't care. It doesn't mean we automatically place a neon C on their chest to brand them a "Cheater" and start shunning them. We either file these moments away or toss them into the shred pile. When people add up an enormous amount of these moments... I begin to wonder what else in their life do they "RE-interpret the rules" and take shortcuts with?

Judging is what we do. Do I want to cache with those who go directly to the last stage of a cache? No not particularly. They probably don't want to cache with me either. It would be like caching with an accident prone Mother Superior - a GPS in one hand and a ruler in the other. Because frankly since I think stage skipping is wrong, those who do skip would hate it as well. Should people burn in eternal damnation because they shortcut a cache... No. But any trust you may have for them is definitely on shaky ground. Who does it really hurt though? Depends how much your reputation is worth to you.

I am not the perfect cacher. I've cheated a switchback or two. I try to play the game as it was intended, that would be the game I chose to play. I guess that would be because I started at much simpler time in the game's evolution. And the rules were crystal clear. I didn't have to spell things out on the page to cover every contingency. Nor did I need it spelled out for me. But I must admit my game has changed as well over the years. But I haven't taken to stage skipping yet. I don't think that's going to happen in the near future either.

Slay, good response. Thanks, I appreciate the input and discussion.
My comments and responses are below.
I tried to cut it up so my responses made sense. I apologized ahead of time if I have taken anything out of context.


Originally posted by Slayerette:
And What about those caches that are used to fulfill a WRC requirement? Those are based on diff and terr ratings. Those ratings take into account all the stages... not just the final. So by not doing all the stages, is that cache really a 4.0 / 4.0... or more like a 2 / 2.5. That could mean the difference of whether someone gets a coin or not. Yeah, I think judging is what I'll do here too.
Lakebum:
This will certainly cheapen the WRC find. I agree that it is something I would frown on and think is cheap. But, it does not affect me in the least. I would frown on it for a second then move on and never give it another thought. It’s still only a smiley. It’s their smiley to cheapen. I don’t understand the comment about the coin? Will I get a coin when I finish the WRC? Is there a limited amount of WRC coins available? Or are you talking SWAG?

From Slayerttes second response:
Just a small question... when you asked "Who does it hurt?" pertaining to skipped stages in a multi, And I gave 2 examples...
Why were they seemingly looked over?
Lakebum:
I do not see your 2nd example. I “overlooked” them for a couple reasons. I do not understand part of your post, so I stayed away from it. Second, I did not want to seem like I was picking on you since this started based on one of your other posts. So, since I had good things to respond to elsewhere I used those.

Slay writes:
Even if you discount the first example as me getting my nose out of joint, the second One really should be addressed. It was an example of where actually winning was important. Where the playing field should have been the same. I understand getting help at the stages because they can't be found... but just not doing them all together well, that's not a fair game.
Lakebum:
Its not a game. Its an activity. There are no winners and losers. So what if I skip the stages of a multi. Not to be repetitive, but I only hurt myself. I miss out on the experience and the journey. It has no effect on you.

Slay
How would somebody like it if the coords to all the GGA challenge caches were given to a cacher the day before. And he took a couple of his friends with him and they went through all the caches. I'm sure their Poker Hands would be winners.
Lakebum:
That would be cheating!!! Cheating at the GGA event would be cheating. That’s not the same as taking a short cut to a puzzle cache. This example is cheating at an event. It would hurt the other people participating in the event. Judge away my friend!!!! That’s not what I am talking about. I am talking about taking short cuts on puzzles and skipping steps on multi’s. Nowhere did I imply it would be okay to cheat at the GGA event.

Slay:
Now, I'm not sure if this topic is about "being judged" or "who does it hurt".
Lakebum:
Agreed, I got off topic on some of my responses.

Slay:
But we judge things everyday. Friends, family, co-workers and strangers all do things we judge either good bad or don't care. It doesn't mean we automatically place a neon C on their chest to brand them a "Cheater" and start shunning them. We either file these moments away or toss them into the shred pile.
Lakebum:
I agree we all judge and we file these moments away for future reference. It is part of human nature and something you have to do to pick your friends wisely and get through life in general.

Slay:
When people add up an enormous amount of these moments... I begin to wonder what else in their life do they "RE-interpret the rules" and take shortcuts with?
Lakebum:
I just think it’s silly to pass judgment on someone based on how they cache. Obviously we all judge as stated above, but judging on caching habits should not amount to a hill of beans.
I also think it is wrong to post personal judgments or thoughts about someone in a public forum. Particularly in a small community forum like ours.
We in this forum are not privy to the “enormous amounts of these moments”, all we see is someone’s personal judgment of someone else.
This is what got me going on the judgmental high horse. I just thought this was wrong. Take it for what it is. It is not an attack. It is just my personal opinion.

Slay:
Judging is what we do. Do I want to cache with those who go directly to the last stage of a cache? No not particularly.
Lakebum:
Me neither. As stated before I think you are missing part of the experience and journey by doing so. That being said, I don’t care if someone else does it.
I would conclude they do not have the same caching desires as me and therefore I don’t want to cache with them. I don’t think I would judge them however.

Slay:
But any trust you may have for them is definitely on shaky ground.
Lakebum: Trust? How can you know if you are going to trust someone based on if they take short cuts on caching? You don’t know them by their logs or caching habits. You can’t trust someone because they are a good cacher. You have to get to know them first.

Slay: Who does it really hurt though? Depends how much your reputation is worth to you.
Lakebum:
Agreed 100%. You hit the nail on the head. It’s your reputation to ruin. You’re only hurting yourself.

Slay:
I am not the perfect cacher. I've cheated a switchback or two. I try to play the game as it was intended, that would be the game I chose to play. I guess that would be because I started at much simpler time in the game's evolution. And the rules were crystal clear. I didn't have to spell things out on the page to cover every contingency. Nor did I need it spelled out for me. But I must admit my game has changed as well over the years. But I haven't taken to stage skipping yet. I don't think that's going to happen in the near future either
Lakebum:
I agree 100% here too and could make the same statement about myself….. (Except for the spelled out part on the parasite cache. I was pretty thick on that one)

quote:

Originally posted by Slayerette:

It would be like caching with an accident prone Mother Superior - a GPS in one hand and a ruler in the other.

Is it just me, or is it getting hot in here?

quote:

Originally posted by mudbug65:

quote:

Originally posted by Slayerette:

It would be like caching with an accident prone Mother Superior - a GPS in one hand and a ruler in the other.

Is it just me, or is it getting hot in here?

It was a humorous swipe at my inability to walk in the woods without falling and my righteous indignation as well as my education.


Nuns actually have a sense of humor Donovan.

yeah, i got your point...

think you missed mine though.

I was uh.. like imagining you in a nun's habit, spanking bad little boys with your ruler.

hence "it's getting *hot* in here"



explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog.
you learn a lot
but the frog dies.

As for the Huge post by Joe... Cutting this up line by line only facilitated it to be taken out of context.

1st paragraph:
WRC... 10 coins to the first 10 finders. Roughly the same in all the WRCs in the other states.

2nd Paragraph:
1st example is the part you stayed away from... It was the minimizing the accomplishments of others (or myself) by lets say exaggarrating of their own. This is what I was talking about when I said getting my nose out of joint... The second was the WRC. Which you avoided all together till I prodded.
As for not meaning to sound like you were picking on me... That's what started this whole thing so you really can't or couldn't disguise it.

3rd paragraph:
It is a game. It's also an activity. A Hobby. Some would even say it's a sport. If it was only an activity there wouldn't be contests, competitions, challenges, rankings or stats. And there certainly wouldn't be scores placed next to our names and corporate sponsors. As for no winners or losers... You are only half right. Call it what you like... But when there are things at stake - coins, t-shirts, GPS's, a bicycle, or even Bragging Rights for the winner... It's a game. If you compete in the above mentioned events... and you beat me because you skip stages... It does have an effect on me.

4th paragraph:
Let me make it clear I didn't mention anything about a puzzle cache, you inferred that I did. Which then takes what I said out of context. Puzzle caches are a whole different can of worms and I try to deal with one can at a time. Why would it be any different at the gga event than any other challenge (delorme, WRC, etc). There are things at stake. Just as there are at the other challenges. Anytime you give someone an unfair advantage... it's cheating. Whether it's at this challenge event or any other. You pretty much made my point for me.

5th paragraph:
agreement

6th paragraph:
Agreement

7th Paragraph:
Contradictory to previous paragraphs response.

quote:

It is part of human nature and something you have to do to pick your friends wisely and get through life in general.

quote:

Obviously we all judge as stated above, but judging on caching habits should not amount to a hill of beans.

what I get from that is "Judge on everything but caching... It's off limits." You implied that is all I judge a person by. I just said I begin to wonder. We are all judged by our actions... great and small. It's funny that a bunch of great actions can totally be overshadowed by a small bad one. That is not my fault you or someone else is doing something I find wrong. It's the consequence of the choice. You thinking it's silly is your opinion. AS is using all available information to me at the time to "pick friends wisely and get through life in general" my opinion.

As for posting personal judgements ... right here and right now in this forum I am speaking generally. If I were trying to out anyone I would have named names and listed particular events... I pretty much know which closets the skeletons are hiding in. I didn't. You assumed I was referring to someone in particular and I wasn't...You came up with that on your own. You asked for an opinion... I gave it. You just didn't like it because it didn't match up to yours. You saw it as an attack (personal judgement) On you or somebody else... Then you come after me. You're gonna teach me a lesson. It sure feels like an attack... Oh yeah but it's not... because you said it was just your opinion. Don't think the irony got past me.

As for trust, that's mine to give... and I'll base it on what information I have available. Most cachers don't carry around their credit report, school records, letters of recommendation, work history or resume, etc... with them when they cache. I make trust judgements all day long and I use whatever means possible. If that's all I have to pull from then that's what I'm going to use. It's not my fault those actions don't ring true on my trust meter. Since we all know that A very big part of Friendship is trust... well it all goes back to picking your friends wisely now doesn't it.

quote:

Slay: Who does it really hurt though? Depends how much your reputation is worth to you.
Lakebum:
Agreed 100%. You hit the nail on the head. It’s your reputation to ruin. You’re only hurting yourself.

Yes it is yours to ruin. That is your choice. With choice comes consequence, which is the possibility that people may think poorly of you. That is life. What I think you are wanting people to do is let others do whatever they want and have a free pass to any consequences. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. It's supposed to be a deterrent. I guess if you don't care what people think then you're golden now aren't ya? It works for me.


You(not generally but specifically) asked for an opinion, and I answered with mine. You asked who would it hurt... I gave you examples of who it could hurt. No specific incidents, just possible scenarios.

I'm glad you explained... I was thinking something a little more south than china...

I definitely like your explanation better...

Spanking bad little boys (that are over 18 of course).... that is sooooo naughty.


By the way people...I'm not a nun.

I hate puzzle caches. I am like lakebum where it only frustrates and upsets me to plug away at stuff I really have NO INTEREST in or simply cannot comprehend. I just want to find the cache.

When I was living & caching with Cymbaline, he'd solve them all and then I'd go with him to hunt them. Sometimes I even had one of my mathamatician caching friend in Texas solve the dang puzzle for me. I'm not a nuclear physicist or an engineer... so there's like NO WAY I'd ever solve the stupid puzzle anyway.

I couldn't care less whose respect I earn or lose caching this way.

Here in SC, I simply leave all the multi and puzzle caches out of my query. Then they don't even exist to me. And I am much happier and less stressed out that way.... Or I will be once the tourists vacate this area and it's easier to actually go caching

Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.

Is there a cache that requires spanking?

If you're offering...

I think it's somewhere in Flowery Branch...

quote:

Originally posted by LZ33:
Is there a cache that requires spanking?

Not any more. Remember the ALR?

Oh.

My.

Goodness.

Hasn't this thread become FUN?!?

quote:

Originally posted by LZ33:
Is there a cache that requires spanking?

ahem

This thread has been very thought provocative, and I do have a different view of caching, (code word “Spank Me“). Maybe others have input as well.

I would have to agree that this has been a thought provoking topic. I'm in agreement with two things here:

1) It's a game - cache how you want to as long as you don't put yourself or anyone else in danger by it and...

2) as long as you like who you see in the mirror every morning who cares what other people think?

T1

:whistles an old Madonna tune as he walks off into the sunset:

I haven't been caching a lot lately becaause of other commitments. However, as the author of a number of puzzle caches, I do have an opinion on the subject.

I don't care if a finder solves the puzzle, finds it with a friend who solves it, or just gets the coords from someone. I don't really care that much if someone logs who didn't find it. I do appreciate those who specify in their logs that they did or didn't solve it.

My purpose in such puzzles has always been to educate others or show them something that I find interesting. For that reason I usually pair a hard puzzle with an easy find.