Been doing some reading on the web, on the old ez-board site and some user pages that I've dug out of them. We (me and Armkruez) would like to place a few caches soon - although not our special equipment cache just yet - but I'm a bit confused as to who do we need to ask vs. just place the damned thing.

I've seen referenced so far:
- National Park Service
- Forrest Service Areas
- National Forest Areas
- NRAs, like the Chattahoochee (come to think of it, I need to research what NRA actually means 'cos I forgot)
- Georgia State Parks
- County Parks (Cobb/Cherokee/Paulding especially)
- WLMs (Wildlife Management Areas)
- Bureau of Land Management
... and others.

Today I started digging around on .gov sites trying to figure out what belongs to whom on the federal level, still working on that.

I know what to do for GA State Parks, but what about at the county-level and federal level - and there seems to be two different branches of those? There's a spot in a 'hooch NRA I'd like to place one, and then another in a park run by the same folx who do Sope Creek, and yet another in a Cobb County park. Same party? I'm only going to placing caches in Georgia, if it matters.

(deep breath, sorry for being long winded).

My question: Whom do I need to ask where before placing a cache, and/or when is it ok just to go PLACE one (blanket approval)? I don't mean by name/person, just authority at whatever level. Any other input that I'm not thinking of would be appreciated.

Thanks much. Back to my research.

The National Park Service has banned geocaches. The Chattahoochee River parks fall under NPS jurisdiction as "National Recreation Areas" (NRA). They have turned a bit of a blind eye to caches there until recently, when a ranger suggested we request a special use permit. I have a presentation I've put together for the Chief Ranger, but because of the holidays meeting with him has been put off. I should be able to get with him in January and would ask that you hold off until then, please. The presentation includes impact studies for the 29 caches there that illustrate an average visit rate of 3.4 visits a month. If you put out another cache I'll have to redo all my tables and math In the meantime please report any erosion problems to the cache owner, do the usual cache in / trash out, and keep in mind that the Chief Ranger will be reading your cache log.

The state parks technically prohibit conventional container caches. We do have four unconventional container caches (combination locks on ammocans) in four parks. Three are in park offices with virtual stages out in the park leading to the combination. One is out in the woods in a spot selected by the ranger. Its combination is on the cache page. Please build a relationship with a ranger in a park that doesn't have a cache yet and hopefully he'll work with you. If you give me the name of the park I can give you the name of the park manager and his phone number. This would be a good time of year to do it because few are visiting the parks.

National Forest land is ok, except for Wilderness Areas. Mtn-man can elaborate on that. If you hunt the four caches on the Rich Mtn trail you'll find they are all on the same side of the trail - the none Wilderness Area side! Wildlife Management Areas should be ok too, but keep in mind that they are there to manage wildlife for hunters, so wear blaze orange if you don't want to be mistaken for wildlife!

I believe Cobb County has embraced geocaching as long as we cause no problems. The same holds true for the Gwinnett County Regional Parks like Tribble Mill and Yellow River. The smaller parks often have a cache or two and it's been largely a don't ask / don't tell situation. Some have, however, asked for permission and received it - I think CharlieP did for a Roswell City Park cache along the Chattahooche.

I've made a presentation to the Elachee Nature Center management near Gainesville and they are still assessing that. I would suggest putting a moratorium on putting new caches out there until they decide how they want to approve them.

The US Army Corps of Engineers administers the shores of Lake Lanier. There are many caches there. I've spoken to one of their rangers who said that if he saw an ammocan cache near Buford Dam he'd call the bomb squad. I can certainly undestand and appreciate that. I also took that comment to imply that they have no problems with caches on other parts of the lake shore or islands.

Perhaps others can elaborate on other specific locations.

~erik~

Thank you Erik, for your response. Clarified most of my questions, but left a few in the air - not your fault. We won't place any caches based on your response.

Any other info I dig up I'll post here. Remember, I'm new to this, but given that this hobby has been around for 2+ years, I would have thought that hurdles like this would have been cleared already. If they haven't, well, time to make it right!

I've no plans to place a cache in a Georgia State Park at this time. Outside of the cache I have planned for Cobb County Parks & Recreation, I'm going to have to wait til after your presentation.

Thanks again, gratefully, for your input.

Erik is pretty well right on. The general National Forest Areas are OK, but you have to watch out for the Wilderness Areas (Raven Cliffs, Cohutta, etc.). Cobb County lets us place caches. Recently cachers in GA have generally lived up to the general guidelines for Geocaching such as no digging or going on private property and such, which has helped.

 but given that this hobby has been around for 2+ years, 
I would have thought that hurdles like this would have been cleared already. 

 . Recently cachers in GA have generally lived up to the general guidelines for Geocaching
 such as no digging or going on private property and such, which has helped.  

I think what we have is a sport that started off on the wrong foot 2+ years ago that we are now trying to get back on the right foot.

I don't know the entire short history of the situation but I can imagine overenthusiastic new geocachers in the infancy of the sport out West (where it started) putting caches in inappropriate locations in Yellowstone and Yosemite w/o asking. That probably resulted in a knee-jerk reaction to ban 'caches in all National Park administered properties.

We saw a similar situation in the Ga. State Parks - an apparent overreaction to a few caches placed in inappropriate locations (Indian mounds, under endangered plants) or with inappropriate contents (pocket knives, etc.) I don't think they would lock up all the rest rooms in all the parks if they had one incident of inappropriate behaviour in a restroom, but that argument didn't carry much weight. Since then we've had 9/11 which caused new security concerns as well.

So please look at it not as an inability to clear hundles after two years but as an ongoing effort to overcome the hurdles that were put in our way due to some problems with early caches.

I think if you are in doubt about whether to put out a cache or not - ask the park manager. If he says "no" just don't cite the other caches that are already in his park or similar parks -try to sell yours on its merits. I've found that the average cache gets a visit of once a week or less, so environmental damage should be minimal if its placed correctly. In return the park gets its trails cleaned for free and gets visitors - which they all want.

~erik~

quote:

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Originally posted by ~erik~:
I think if you are in doubt about whether to put out a cache or not - ask the park manager. If he says "no" just don't cite the other caches that are already in his park or similar parks -try to sell yours on its merits. I've found that the average cache gets a visit of once a week or less, so environmental damage should be minimal if its placed correctly. In return the park gets its trails cleaned for free and gets visitors - which they all want.

~erik~

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Well said erik. I think these things are the key to our future success.

I have lost the thread, and therefore the progress, on Erik's work to get the NPS to allow caches in the Chattahoochee NRA (That's "National RECREATION Area" not "National RESTRICTION Area." Can anyone point me back to the thread or update us all? ~Erik~ maybe?

A couple of threads down.

The latest.

See ya on the hunt!

Thanks DR, I guess I was current. Nothing since Mid-January, I guess.

I did call the Chief Ranger this morning, hoping to get an update for this Saturday's meeting. I had to leave a voice mail message and did not get a return call. I'll call again tommorrow. He and the Park Superintendent were going to evaluate the Special Use Permit application and all the supporting paperwork. Hopefully no news is good news in this case.

~erik~

No news is not a "no."