I own the parasite caches.

Most of you know the whole intention of them is for a cacher to go to a difficult cache and be rewarded with not 1 smiley but 2.

It isn't a difficult concept. But there are some who feel it necessary to abuse an already generous spirit and forego the whole "Put it back in a cache so others can find it" principle. I understand sharing a find, with someone on the trail, but with everyone you see... that to me can nearly be considered a pocket cache.
Well those are not tolerated by Geocaching.com nor by me. I have sent out 2 emails to possibly get this to stop... but have not gotten a response. I have deleted logs. I have also contacted groundspeak.


I have been laying low for about 9 months... Not getting worked up over this geo-junk. I can't believe I have to waste my time and energy with this behaviour. Just because getting a smiley (his second on this cache) is so important. Normally I don't care, but this kind of behaviour probably is why this type of cache was discontinued. And that is not going to be the fate of mine. Gc.com has allowed me to keep my caches and I will continue to respect their wishes of keeping it an "Honest" cache.


Just thought I would let you know what's going on.

I was proud to host it and sad to see it go. Thanks for keeping it going long enough for me to get my greedy little hands on it.

It was my pleasure. I enjoyed its stay on the lake. I was not happy when it left, but hoped it would make it's way to a nice cache.

Thing is...I'm still waiting.

Good for you Slayerette. It is the people like these that take away the fun of the game for the rest of us. If more people would object to this type of behavior maybe some of it would cease. BUT... I've got to tell you that I've deleted a cache find claimed by this same individual for reasons the guy agreed to at the time. Later, he complained and had his "find" reinstated by gc.com. The reason given was "if the log has been signed, it is a valid find".

Of course, the real culprits in this case are the ones that previously grabbed the parasite from the cache and passed it around. These are the same people that maintain the database of final coords for mystery caches and final coords for multistage caches.

Good luck with the your efforts but I'm afraid that the sleaze will get the best of you.

That would explain someone doing 21 caches in a 10 hour day - 9 of them were mystery caches and the rest were multis. Multis that in each their own right take at least 3 hours each to complete. But I guess if you have the final stage to all those caches, that makes that a not so impressive feat.

I wonder how these people explain to their children the difference between right and wrong.
"It's ok to look at your neighbors paper ... It's only a test." "If you don't get got... it's perfectly legal."

A measure of a man's (or woman's) character can be seen through his (or her) deeds. Not the extraordinary ones, but the everyday ordinary deeds. I weep for the future, because these dishonest deeds seem to be acceptable to the masses. But when someone makes a stand for what is right, they are labeled a troublemaker. Well, I would rather be a trouble maker than a cheat. I can explain away being a trouble maker, they will never be able to explain being a cheat.

Slay,
I made the same mistake when I had this cache in my possession.

When Fourdoggies and I made this mistake, it was not done to take advantage of the situation, or to turn the cache into a pocket cache, or to twist things around, or to run up our numbers, or to make you mad as heck. God knows you are the last person in the world I want to make mad (besides my wife of course). My fingers are trembling now as I write this reply…honest.

I just had a cache with me at work, and another cacher works with me, so I let him sign it. No harm intended.

After making the same mistake my input to you would be for you to put in bold letters across the top of the cache page:

“You can only log this parasite cache if it is being hosted in another cache, and you found it in that cache. If you log this cache, and you did not find it in a host cache your log will be deleted.”

No where does it say this on your cache page. I was unaware of this requirement until you not so subtlety pointed it out to Fourdoggies and me.

This way when someone logs the cache inappropriately, delete the log and very calmly refer to the top of the cache page.

I think this would help tremendously with the situation.

Lakebum

I am also the owner of two traveling caches, as some of you know. I am also rigid with the logging of these caches. I've had one passed around at an event one time. I deleted a log or two and posted a note on the cache page that you had to follow the instructions on the tag attached to the cache and the same instructions on the cache page itself. Some were nice enough to delete their own logs.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek...df-90fb-1e72f28c5cdc

To me it isn't an easy cache to find and that is the intent. Logging it at an event if you see it on the table cheapens the work that so many other cacher's have done to log legit finds (and some DNF's when they missed it).

I think you need to stick to your principals on this cache Slayerette. To me, it isn't an additional logging requirement. It is *the* logging requirement. You find it, you move it, you get your smiley. You have to track it down though. That is the challenge. I'll watch this topic with great interest to see what reply you get from Groundspeak. I am thinking and wondering if I should write them too, since this somewhat concerns caches that I own like yours. I don't want to see ground rules changed (and I mean rules, not guidelines) after my caches have been active since July 2001. To me, the conditions for finds on these caches should be grandfathered, just like that type of cache has been grandfathered in general.

Glad you are sticking to your vision of your cache. I intend to continue to do the same myself.

Lakebum... I'll definitely take that under advisement. It certainly would discontinue anymore undue aggravation. Though I find that in the same vein as the warning that is on hair dryers that tell you not to use while sleeping because it is not a heater. But if the masses aren't willing to do what they know they are supposed to do... then maybe I should just acquiesce.

Having said that, This cache (and the other spawns) has been around for 7.5 years. Only in the last maybe 2 years and only on a few (3) rare occasions has this been an issue. Besides the incident you described that makes 2 times.

Yes I agree the cacher who has the cache now is a newbie. He probably has no idea that he is doing anything wrong. So I sent a nice email asking him to PLACE the cache for others to find. Giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Then it happened again... by a "Seasoned" cacher. Someone who should know better. Another email was sent. One explaining why it needs to be placed, what actions I have already taken and if he was unable to place to let me know I would come get it. So now I have sent him 2 emails through GC.com and gotten no response. None. And the "Seasoned" Cacher's log was deleted.

Your incident was different... you all responded, fixed the situation and it didn't continue. I actually was pretty happy with how you guys handled it.

I guess when it comes to getting a smilie the lines of what is acceptable are blurred. It doesn't matter how we get there as long as we sign the log. There are those who believe that is because it's just a game and that we all play by our own rules. Some people's standards are higher than others of what is acceptable...
they don't claim the cache on line unless they actually sign the log. (for example) Even if the owner gives them permission to. (Like on a lost cache) Then there are Some people who think anything is up for grabs when it comes to adding to their cache finds.

Hmmm...
only doing the last stage of a multi.
Not going to a cache but Having someone else sign the logs for them.
Just logging the cache on line without ever leaving the couch.

Just to name a few, and for some reason it's ok to do that and I'm the one who is crazy because I expect people to actually go to all the stages of a cache.

Well, Yeah if you want to do that... fine but don't do it to my caches. As for the spawns the intent is there. It is written that it travels from cache to cache... not car to car.

Travel caches were forbidden a couple of years ago. I would assume because of this kind of behaviour. Just as pocket caches were totally banned by Jeremy. The traveling caches that remain are few and because they have requirements... Find - Move (or not) - Rehide in ammo can. I do not want my travel caches to be lumped up with, treated like or confused as being a "Pocket" Cache.


I'm sure this newbie is a nice guy. I'm sure he doesn't know better. But the cachers that he has shared this with should have pointed it out. Maybe he should check his email a little more. Whatever.

I shouldn't have to rework my cache page to appease the minority... but it looks like I will probably have to. At least for the time being.

Yes I am gathering the spawn up. I have another solution that will resolve this issue completely. And it will make the future finders of these caches pretty ticked off at those who "ruined it for everyone".

Thanks Greg. I appreciate your support on this. It isn't my intention to trash this cacher. It is to solely protect my caches as well as the other traveling caches. I want my intentions documented as well as my outrage, in order to show groundspeak that I have the same vision as they do on these caches. I do not want them to ever give them the impression that I condone the cache as a freebie "find" pocket cache.

Thanks again.

Slay,
Two more comments.

You say:
“Yes I agree the cacher who has the cache now is a newbie. He probably has no idea that he is doing anything wrong. So I sent a nice email asking him to PLACE the cache for others to find. Giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Then it happened again... by a "Seasoned" cacher. Someone who should know better..... “

I am by no means defending anyone. I don’t have the details. I just wanted to point out that when I made the mistake I was a somewhat seasoned (probably more stinky than seasoned) cacher, and still stepped into your poo poo pile.


You say:
“I shouldn't have to rework my cache page to appease the minority... but it looks like I will probably have to. At least for the time being.”

In my opinion you are not changing it for the minority; you are changing it for yourself so you can stay in your place of peace and tranquility.

quote:

Originally posted by Lakebum:
Slay,
Two more comments.

You say:
“Yes I agree the cacher who has the cache now is a newbie. He probably has no idea that he is doing anything wrong. So I sent a nice email asking him to PLACE the cache for others to find. Giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Then it happened again... by a "Seasoned" cacher. Someone who should know better..... “

He had already signed this cache once before and has found the other 2. It wasn't his first time dealing with a parasite cache or me.

But this is neither here nor there. To absolutely honest with you and myself... I don't care how people cache, they have to live with it. But when that behaviour whether intentional or accidental opens my cache to the risk of being archived... I get a little out of sorts. What matters most is how things are percieved by gc.com. If it appears in anyway that I condone the "pocket cache-itizing" of my cache... it will be gone. I will not give that impression.

quote:

You say:
In my opinion you are not changing it for the minority; you are changing it for yourself so you can stay in your place of peace and tranquility.

Yes ... being in my happy place is where I prefer to hang. If only that one phrase would make that happen... I'll put it on the house.

But sadly, it only deals with one aspect of the problem. The signers... It doesn't get it hidden any quicker. Then there are those that will find a way around that. so we'll be revisiting it again down the road.

But like I said... I have a plan. It will be a challenge. Best of all I won't have to deal with it anymore. I just have to get the caches back. But in the mean time your suggestion is a good one for now. I just have to deal with Gc.com about this issue before changing the page.

Character is what you do when nobody is looking.

Having said that, I admit there have been rare occasions where I have not necessarily followed the letter of the law. Stay in the back seat on a drive-by and what-not. And still, I like to think that I uphold what I understand to be the rules, and think everyone else should too. Part of why I participate with the Boy Scouts - and I strongly believe I should lead by example, as we all surely do to those that watch us.

I remember fondly coming across this very cache in January and the rules seemed very clear to me. Shouldn't be hard to follow.

But as others have said it seems there is a general decline in what I'll call "moral character" across society. About all we can do is keep displaying what we believe in by how we live and hope that others will observe and learn.

How can I be upset with one of the boys in my troop for not upholding these ideals if I don't myself?

So, this is uncharacteristically verbose for me. I hope I managed to contribute something to the conversation. Let's keep trying to do what's right and hope others follow our lead.

doctor mole
Scoutmaster, Troop 268

Dr. Mole...
Boy I wish I could talk like that dude. Well put.



I think I need to probably rename this discussion... To something along the lines of...

"What I am more afraid of than I am angry about..."


What I am most afraid of is the perception that GC.com will have of this and the other spawn caches. All it takes is one cache to ruin it for all the rest. And since there isn't many left anymore, it wouldn't be that big of deal to just archive them all. It sure would save them a lot of hassles. And then we THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY OF GEOCACHING would lose out on this special kind of cache.

You may think I am making a big deal out of this, but history is on my side. So If traveling caches get completely banned somewhere down the road... It is not going to be because "SLAY Ruined it for everyone". I'm doing my part to keep that from happening.

Now an update on the cache... I have spoken to the last person who had the cache. He tried to place it... but couldn't find a cache it would fit in. Someone at a cache he met up with took it and will be placing it in a cache in north ga. The 2 cachers that were caching with her also claimed the cache, one on one day and another on the next. The second of the 2 was deleted. Now after hearing the story, the first should be deleted as well.

I am in the process of cleaning up all the administrative details. I still haven't heard from groundspeak. But I am sure they are covered up and I will hear from them shortly. As soon as I do, I will let you know.