Replicated from the GGA EZBoard:

Brad Webb
gpsfun
(8/16/01 7:02:37 pm)
Cache Contents Best Practices

This forum can be used to discuss neat things to put into caches, as well as things to be avoided. Also, what to do if you find things in caches that you think should not be there - maybe this is obvious, but many have suggested removing items such as matches, lighters, knives and food.

Thanks for sharing.

-Brad
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lmoseley
BigDoggie
(8/16/01 9:32:05 pm)
Cache Contents Best Practices

As I put on the tags I made, I believe that the "Golden Rule" of cache contents should be "Don't put anything in this cache that you wouldn't want your family to find in the next one."

Obvious exclusions: weapons, drugs, fireworks/dangerous objects, food (attracts animals).

A slight variation of the question: does a cache-finder have the RIGHT, or the DUTY, to remove items from a cache that s/he personally finds objectionable?

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Brad Webb
gpsfun
(8/17/01 7:59:15 am)
Re: Cache Contents Best Practices

Responding to Lewis' rephrased question, I believe a geocacher has the RIGHT to take any object from a cache as long as it is replaced by another object.

As far as DUTY, I would like to think that those who want to support the future of geocaching activity would perceive it as a duty, but I don't believe our association should make it a rule or an enforced expectation.

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lmoseley
BigDoggie
(8/17/01 10:30:45 am)
Re: Cache Contents Best Practices

Of course!

Brad, in one sentence you removed all the moral ambiguities that I had about one geocacher "taking" something from a cache!

If you don't like something in a cache, let THAT be the item that you trade for!

Excellent point!

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mtn man
Registered User
(8/17/01 11:02:31 pm)
Re: Cache Contents Best Practices

Some of this may be a matter of awareness. As items that may be controversial are discussed, more Geocachers will keep some of these objectionable items in there mind as they go hiking and seeking.

A new pun... "Hike and Seek"!!!
mtn-man (Greg)
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tjbowers
Registered User
(8/18/01 11:24:50 pm)
Re: Cache Contents Best Practices

Playing off of Mtn Man's last post, here's a case-in-point. I posted a longer version of this to the listserve a few days ago but I'll reprint a condensed version here for the sake of discussion.

I recently saw two virtual log entries regarding items folks have put in two of the caches I placed. One cache had a pocket knife placed in it and the other had what sounds like a rubber ball with a built-in utility knife.

At first I didn't see the "obvious" problem with placing a knife in a cache. I'm not a family cacher and couldn't imagine a parent allowing a child too young to handle a knife to cache unsupervised. Then again, I never thought of putting a pocket knife in a cache--the original idea of caching was to place worthless trinkets in the cache. I still don't think knives are an "obvious" problem. There are many different people geocaching and many of us don't have kids and aren't sensitive to those concerns. Folks who cache with kids should be aware of that and act accordingly. Likewise, those of us without kids should be aware that families will follow us and we too should act accordingly. I think this is an example of what GGA can provide the geocaching community: a forum for education and awareness.

There is another related issue to consider. What responsibility do I, as the person who placed the cache, have in supervising or policing (jezz, hate to use that word) the cache I placed?

Any thoughts?

Jess

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lmoseley
BigDoggie
(8/20/01 11:17:57 am)
Re: Cache Contents Best Practices

With a safety/insurance background, I tend to think in terms of LIABILITY. Now, I'm no lawyer, but the term "attractive nuisance" comes to mind.

And I can just see poor ol' Jess (or poor ol' Lewis) writhing on the witness stand, as Johnny Cochran leans in close and says, "And, so, Jess, you put this container out there, and you read the logs on the comouter, and you KNEW that someone had placed a bag of M-80 firecrackers in the cache... and so you IMMEDIATELY jumped in your car and went to you cache to remove that dangerous, DANGEROUS material, right? No? You didn't go? And that's why poor Johnny now has no eyes or fingers, isn't it Jess?"

You get the idea. If a cache you placed can be traced back to you, you have the POTENTIAL for liability for what is in it.


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LoCache
Administrator
(8/20/01 2:07:09 pm)
Re: Cache Contents Best Practices

Some things in life are just easier than others. This is one of those really easy things to me. There are a million things that pose no threat, that we can put in a cache....just use those items as items you place, and as mentioned somewhere above, take out the items of concern. If you find a cache with a knife or other harmful object in it, make that the item you take. Simple. If we over-analyze it, we will find that ANYTHING can be construed as dangerous if someone wants to make it so. Just use a little common sense, and this issue goes away.

And I have an even better idea! Erik and Donovan have pretty much found all of the caches in Georgia, so let's just have them revisit them and remove questionable items! ;-) Just kidding guys!

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mtn man
Registered User
(8/20/01 8:15:18 pm)

Re: Cache Contents Best Practices

"If you find a cache with a knife or other harmful object in it, make that the item you take. " -- LoCache

I like this idea as a cache finder. Am I wrong for removing something I find objectionable from a cache I placed? I have tried to apply the same reasoning, to leave another item when I took matches out of Kenn. Mtn. I know that I do not have to revisit my cache, but it does make me feel better (and yes, I read all of the logs).

As to Liability, I have posted the same disclaimers on my web pages that the Geocaching site has on theirs. I have even made the part about supervising kids REAL BIG. I know there are many of you good parents that supervise your kids. I have seen far too many kids WAY out ahead of the parents on hikes. I have seen so much negligence by some parents, and that is why I lean toward the side of prevention. This is a judgement call I personally make which I hope will help prevent any possible injury to anyone coming to my cache.

I will just tell anyone that sues me that Jeremy told me it was OK.
Tee hee mtn-man

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tjbowers
Registered User
(8/20/01 8:44:59 pm)
Re: Cache Contents Best Practices

I too am concerned about the liability issue. Unlike Lewis, I AM a lawyer (a prosecutor--I get paid to tell the truth in court ;-) and this issue has always been in the back of my mind. (By the way, nice narrative, Lewis. Yes, that is EXACTLY how it would go) However, by writing "responsibility" in my original post I meant to avoid the liability issue and intended to ask for thoughts on the social responsibility (if any) we bear as cache placers. I thought it might make an intesting thread and could help us define the contours of the group's educational materials regarding cache placement.

Any thoughts?

Jess
"It's got to be the going, not the getting there, that's good"
--Harry Chapin

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Gossamyrrh
Registered Geocacher
(10/22/01 5:53:23 pm)

Re: Cache Contents Best Practices

I am creating a new geocache and have tweaked the information sheet.

1) I specifically ask that nothing potentially "dangerous" be left in the cache, ie. knives, chemicals, matches.

2) I stated that I intend to periodically inspect the cache's contents and anything "questionable" will be removed. (After all, it is *my* cache, and *my* backside on the line! I can do with it whatever I want.)

3) I added contact info for the GGA.

[This message was edited by gpsfun on November 04, 2002 at 03:59 PM.]