A request from your one of your humble cache reviewers:

There's a new feature on your cache page - a way to document the waypoints associated with your cache, in addition to the obvious posted one. You can add coordinate waypoints to help other geocachers - like a parking area or a trailhead. For the paperless caching crowd those additional waypoints can be magically downloaded to a PDA and GPS. Pretty cool.

You can also add coordinate waypoints to help us - your cache reviewers. That would include the final coordinates of a mystery cache, and the final and intermediate coordinates of a multistage cache. This category of added waypoints would only be visible to you, and to an administrator like myself using a new reviewer’s tool.

Here's why I ask that you do this:
Whenever I review a new cache submission I have to be sure that it's not too close (less than .1 mile, or 528 ft.) to another cache, or to the intermediate stages of another cache. I don't really care about proximity to the victicious posted coords of a mystery cache, but we don't want someone else's container being found while searching for yours. A few years ago, when geocaches were few and far between, the cache reviewer didn't even bother to ask for these coords. In the last few years we have had to, but they've only been documented as a "note to reviewer" log to your cache page. When a new cache is submitted in a cache dense area I have to check for the nearest caches, then open as many as dozens of cache pages, retrieve that "note to reviewer" and compare the new cache's coords to those of the old cache. It's very tedious and time consuming.

Jeremy, whose site geocaching.com is, has added the "waypoints" feature to help the cache reviewers. We can now click on a link (labeled "Litmus Test") that shows the reviewers at a glance how close the new cache is to the starting and ending coords of all other caches in the area. It's a great help, but it relies on those waypoints being recorded.

I've been doing it on new mystery and multistage cache submissions for the last couple of weeks, and in the course of checking nearby caches to those new ones have been transfering the data from the "note to reviewer" on old caches to the new "waypoints" tool of those caches. However there are a lot yet to do. Also, many older caches (from 2003 or 2004 back) do not have the coords recorded at all.

Here's where you can help me: If you have a multistage or mystery cache please go to your cache page and click on "waypoints" at the top right section of the cache page. You'll then see a page where you enter your coordinates and make some selections. First you'll select what type of waypoint this is. "Final location" and "Stages of a multicache" are the ones I'm interested in. Then give it a name. Here "Cache" or "Final Location" or "Stage 2" would be appropriate. In the next two fields you're asked to enter short abbreviated lookup codes. I've used the unimaginative "CA" for all the ones I've done, but for multicache stages you could pick "S2", S3", "S4", etc.
Just don't pick "GC" as that is reserved...

Moving along.... you then enter your coordinates and select whether you want the whole world to see what you entered, whether you want them to see all but the coordinates, or whether you want to hide this waypoint from view except by the owner or administrator. For a mystery or multi final stage that's the one you'd pick. Then lastly, you select "Create Waypoint". Dont' click on "Archive Waypoint" or you get to start all over again.

So if you could help me out by doing this with your previously published caches, and for any new submissions going forward, it would be greatly appreciated.

I travel a good bit for business, and often get e-mails from geocachers asking me to confirm the actual coords of one of my easy (?) mystery caches before the puzzle solver actually goes hunting. Until I was able to use this tool to document the actual coords of all my caches I'd have to tell people to please wait until I got home later in the week and could check my notes. Now I can log in, go to my cache page, click on "waypoints" and see them. I’ve also had people tell me that a stage of their multi had been muggled, but they couldn’t find their year-old notes with the exact coords. Now it’s easy to go back and get them. It's a great tool. Please use it.

Thanks!

~erik~

With the proliferation of the 'throw-out-of-the-window-micros" I can see where this would start to be a problem.
I will gladly modify my caches to help you guys out. It is the least we can do to help your volunteer job be easier.
I just hope I can find all of the stage coords for them.

Yeah, I'll do this too when I can get around to it. Virtual stages too, I assume?

BTW, Erik, can you change the Cache Type on my X marks the Spot cache to 'Unknown'? That's what I should have set it originally, but there you go. Thanks...

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=...da-b5e9-49883747f018

Wow, fast service, thanks Erik...

BTW, while I'm here...

I'd like to adopt a cache from a user who hasn't logged on in almost a year. I've tried to contact them to no avail.

This is the cache:
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=...fb-99bd-45d897c2cc40

How do I start the adoption process? Or would it be better to archive the old cache and submit a new one? I'm open for either, whatever is best/easier for you...

Thanks... again...

DT

quote:

Yeah, I'll do this too when I can get around to it. Virtual stages too, I assume?

The geocaching guideline on cache saturation says "This guideline applies to all stages of multicaches and mystery/puzzle caches, except for any “bogus” posted coordinates for a puzzle cache."
Personally I don't think it should apply to virtual stages, but the rules say it should. I'd suggest posting them, and let us look at the situation on a case by case basis if a physical cache is placed less than .1 mile of one of your virtual stages.

quote:

BTW, Erik, can you change the Cache Type on my X marks the Spot cache to 'Unknown'? That's what I should have set it originally, but there you go. Thanks...

We no longer have the "unknown" cache type, but since I can't read what you have on your cache page "mystery/puzzle" seems appropriate, so I changed it to that.

Not sure what to tell you about adopting the cache you cited. Unfortunately, being in a National Wildlife Refuge, it should never have been approved to begin with. I suspect we had less limitations on cache placements back then...
I'd recommend relocating it across the sound and resubmiting it as a new cache.


~erik~

Fine by me, I'll pick it up the next time I'm out there, thanks again...

Now that I am fully schooled on the waypoint tool I will enter all the ones for our caches that are not already done. I like this tool. I hate to dig for notes and now it will always be right there on the cache page.

quote:

Originally posted by ~erik~:
I travel a good bit for business, and often get e-mails from geocachers asking me to confirm the actual coords of one of my easy (?) mystery caches before the puzzle solver actually goes hunting. Until I was able to use this tool to document the actual coords of all my caches I'd have to tell people to please wait until I got home later in the week and could check my notes. Now I can log in, go to my cache page, click on "waypoints" and see them.

~erik~

Now the built in waypoints tool is helpful for keeping track of all the waypoints on multicache and helps the reviewers on multi's and puzzle geocache. However for puzzle geocaches you might want to consider GeoChecker: Geocache Coordinate Checker at http://www.geochecker.com/ As the owner of a puzzle geocache, this allows you to create a link to place on the cache page. When a puzzle solver want to check their solution, they just click the link, enter their solution and it tells them if they are correct or not. It only allows 10 checks per 10 minutes.

If you use it the puzzle solvers don't have wait on you to answer email and you don't have to feel "bad" if you didn't have access to email when someone asked you to check their solution.

Thanks Allen, that's pretty slick. I didn't know that was available.

We are using GeoChecker on both of our puzzle cache. It has worked great so far.

It is easy to use and the easy to insert on your cache page....I really like that!

We had one person write and tell us how great it was to know their coords were right before they headed out.

Here is another cool tip too.

Waypoints added to the cache page can either be "hidden" or "public". Hidden ones are used by the reviewers and cache owners. The waypoints tool is *really* cool for public waypoints you enter.

When you get a pocket query now, you will get two files most of the time. The second file has the public waypoints entered by the cache owners for all caches that come in your pocket query. In essence, it works like this...

Say I own cache "GCWXYZ" for example. If I enter public waypoints on the page, they will also come in the pocket query. If they are named by the cache owner "S1" for stage 1 of a multi, the waypoint will say "S1WXYZ". If you load that extra file, they will be on your GPS!

We saw one over the weekend that started out with "BR". At that waypoint was an old metal and wood bridge that we would have never seen without the waypoint. His added public waypoints took us right to it. Parking coordinates work exactly the same way. If you load both files into the GPS, you are good to go for those caches where the owner has entered the coordinates. Here is the cache so you can see an example (I will log my find tonight).

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=...1d-8909-3c9504892c9c

I think it is way cool!

quote:

http://www.geochecker.com/

Bah, humbug. I think this is a website Allen created just to phish for all my mystery cache coords!

Just kidding, of course. This is pretty cool. I'll have to try this out.

~erik~

edited to add that I did put it on one of my caches, but when I tested it by entering coords without typing in the security code it processed the request anyway and gave me:

quote:

Success!

Whoohoo! Yipee! uh-huh, uh-huh! w00t! Yeah, baby!

Now, go get it!

I'm a little leary of people just entering multiple coords over time until they luck into the right answer.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ~erik~,

I did it that way in my Skidaway State Park cache. Much easier for the finders this way, since they don't have to enter the secondary coordinates by hand.

Skiday SP

quote:

Originally posted by ~erik~:

I'm a little leary of people just entering multiple coords over time until they luck into the right answer.

I haven't check it, but according to the section Abuse Prevention and Privacy Policy

quote:

Also, you are limited to 10 attempts in any 10 minute span - this should be enough to try a few solutions without interruption, but should prevent attempts to attack cache coordinates via scripting.

and the FAQ

quote:

This means that it is literally impossible to determine the coordinates from the stored link. The only way to attack it is brute strength - trying every possible combination of coordinates until the solution is presented. Considering there are approximately 2.8 million unique coordinates in a one mile radius, that would be a lot of trying!

Which at 10 every 10 mins works out to 32 days to try all the coords in that 1 mile radius.

quote:

Which at 10 every 10 mins works out to 32 days to try all the coords in that 1 mile radius.

I've been tempted to try that technique with some of the half dozen or so puzzle caches that I've got printed out and sitting on the desk beside me.

Some of them have been there for months and I go back and ponder them again every now and then.

~erik~

Done.

quote:

Originally posted by Team Teuton:
I did it that way in my Skidaway State Park cache. Much easier for the finders this way, since they don't have to enter the secondary coordinates by hand.

Skiday SP

Excellent job! Very nicely done!

It is good that you kept the questions in the description as well as adding them to the additional waypoints you uploaded. I would not put the additional waypoints file through my PDA program, so all I would have would be the waypoints themselves. By having the questions in the description, I can read them on my PDA. By having them in both places, those who print your page will have them cross referenced on the printout they have.

Again, excellent work and another great example that I may use to show people how it should be done.

Yay!

I have stated my opinions to Erik previously on this topic.

Since reviewers are enforcing the proximity rule for intermediate stages of multis, I feel it is probably a bad idea to place multis within parks, as one such cache can essentially hog an entire park. if you want to string a bunch of micros together, there are plenty of supermarket light poles still empty.