The question was asked in "Geocaching Stories: Success or Failure" but I thought I would put my take on it here.

All my caches are close enough to at least visit on any free weekend. Some are close enough to check on any free afternoon. But every afternoon or weekend isn't free. So the first thing I do is read the "no find" log closely and see if it appears they were in the correct area. I also email them for more details if possible. Now if it appears they didn't get to the correct spot, I give hints about where they might went wrong.

But if it is a close one, I also will quickly check it in any case. However it requires a weekend trip I decide if it looks like it is really gone, I will check it as soon as I can. But if I think they just didn't find it, I tend to wait for the next person to hunt it to see if they don't find it. If they don't, then the next free weekend I go check on it. Furthermore various cachers have checked on other people's caches when the hider can't for any reason. So if you are fairly sure it has problem (somebody logs we saw the container broken and the contents all over the side of the mountain) feel free to ask for help. Also if a cache I have found before is not far out of my way and has a couple of no finds on it, I sometimes stop and see if it really is gone.

This is the way I handle no find logs.

Now as a hunter, if I read several no find logs on a cache that I haven't hunted, it goes up on my list to hunt. It is more fun for me to find one after several no find logs, than to be first finder. Whereas some cache hunters don't try for one with several no find logs. Of course sometimes it is really gone, but most of the time we find it.

[This message was edited by AllenLacy on December 20, 2002 at 03:39 PM.]

The only other thing I consider is the experience of the person who couldn't find it. If a newbie can't find a cache that's out of my way I'll wait for a second no find log before panicing.

Most of my caches are pretty close to home so checking them isn't too much of a hardship. If someone says a cache is wet I'll check on it. I had a leaky ammo can that I replaced with a watertight tupperware bread box. That one is now probably in the Gulf of Mexico thanks to heavy rains and flooding. Now its replacement is in a newer ammo box! I guess cache maintenance issues like these are one reason I don't put out caches while on business trips - I only hunt for caches.

~erik~

I also follow what Allen and Erik described above. The only difference is all three of my caches are a good drive from home so it's usually two or three weekends before I can get there to check on it. I make sure the "no find" is logged on the cache page so that future seekers are aware. If a problem is confirmed I change the cache status (I think it's called "inactive") until I can get out there and check for myself. I recently had to do that with the DeSoto Falls cache due to the FS closing the trail. (Note: that cache will be replaced within the next week and a little brother will be added).

I also agree with Penny's original comment that a cache hider has an obligation to manage his/her cache. To that end I try to email a finder every two or three logs and inquire about the condition of the ground around the cache. All of my caches are in the woods and I've long been concerned about the condition of the surrounding land and plants. I'm happy to report that there has been no damage to any the areas!

tjb

quote:

---

Originally posted by ~erik~:
The only other thing I consider is the experience of the person who couldn't find it. <snip>
Most of my caches are pretty close to home so checking them isn't too much of a hardship.
~erik~

---

I thought of that too. This guy has 200+ finds. And this cache is NOT aggresively hidden. But it seems that there is a back way to the cache location that I didn't know about. Several of the logs mention needing boots while Chaos & I didn't even get our feet wet. I don't know if that is part of the problem/confusion or not.
And like you, my caches are pretty close to home. All are within 1.5 hours. So checking on any of my caches is only a day trip.

But anyway.... the decision has been made for me.... there's a new cache 1/2 between me & the "missing" cache. Guess that's a pretty good reason to head down that way.
I hate those green squares on my Georgia map... I've gotta make that thing turn white with a blue check on it!!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by -tjbowers-:
I recently had to do that (make inactive) with the DeSoto Falls cache due to the FS closing the trail. (Note: that cache will be replaced within the next week and a little brother will be added).

---

As far as I know, off trail hiking is allowed in the Chattahoochee National forest. Mtn-man might know for sure. But last night 12/21/02 the race on Georgia Outdoors they went off trail. So it seems to me that if the trail is "closed" then the hike to the cache becomes an off trail hike. Just a thought.

quote:

---

To that end I try to email a finder every two or three logs and inquire about the condition of the ground around the cache.

---

I email a congratulations to every finder. I have "met" several nice people that way.

But now I see why all the logs talked about needing rubber boots.
I tried to place each of my Trail Dog Caches so that a hike of at least 1/4 mile (each way) was required (even the virtual ones). For this one, Chaos & I hiked 1/3 mile along a rice dike. I figured that even the best bushwhacker would have to stay on the dike. Silly ME! Because of the tall grass back in October, I couldn't see that there was another road about 100 feet on the other side of my cache! But there was also water between my cache & that other road. I guess some cachers would rather wade than hike
Anyway, I replaced the cache in a new location & updated the coordinates.
Thanks for the input on cache upkeep.

quote:

---

Originally posted by AllenLacy:
As far as I know, off trail hiking is allowed in the Chattahoochee National forest. Mtn-man might know for sure. But last night 12/21/02 the race on Georgia Outdoors they went off trail. So it seems to me that if the trail is "closed" then the hike to the cache becomes an off trail hike. Just a thought.

---

I think I was the first one who let the closed trail sign keep me from finding the DeSoto Falls Cache
Mostly because my Boy Scout Master husband spends alot of time trying to teach young "flat-land" boys that they must stay on the trails when the troop visits mountainous areas. And so HE WOULDN'T LET ME GO!
Here where it's flat, it doesn't really impact the environment or cause erosion if you go off trail. And he has pointed out several places to me where it was evident that hikers had taken short-cuts across switchbacks. So I let him talk me out of going onto the closed trail.
Anyway, maybe he'll let me try again the next time we're up there.

Well it is "best practice" to stay on a trail if there is one and not shortcut any switch backs. If you go off trail especially in the moutains, you need to be aware of what you are doing and be careful. Now reading the cache logs, I see where they are asking people not to use the trail, so while not illegal it might be considered polite not to use.

Now the last time we went to Desota falls we continued on pass the cache and up to the true upper falls. It will be shame if people can no longer go to those falls.

quote:

---

Originally posted by AllenLacy:
Now the last time we went to Desota falls we continued on pass the cache and up to the true upper falls. It will be shame if people can no longer go to those falls.

---

I was disappointed to not see the upper falls. I'm not sure why they decided to stop maintaining that part of the trail. Sounds like a good Eagle Project.

I agree that it would at least be impolite to use the closed trail. I also suspect the National Forest folks have a specific rule against hiking on closed trails thereby eviserating Allen's creative argument. My biggest concern was leaving a cache in a place that induced folks to disregard the signage and raising the ire of the NP folks. I appreciate the fact they let us place caches and don't want to mess up a good thing.

I'll try to call during the holiday's and get the story on why the trail is closed. From the signage I get the feeling the trail is going to be closed indefinately. Indeed, it's sad that folks won't be able to view the true upper falls. If it's not likely that the trail will be reopened I'll have to check the topo for a decent overland route.

Penny, since the cache will be accessed from the part of the trail that gets a lot of use I'll need to place it further off the trail. You may want to look up NP rules and convince your husband it's ok to walk off the trail to find the cache. I'm thinking 50-100' will be necessary to keep out of view from passing hikers.

Best,

tjb

The Desoto Falls area including the "open" part of the trail is in the Chestatee Wildlife Mangement Area which is open to various hunting seasons. So wear orange during hunting season, especially if you go off trail like the hunters do.

You can hike off-trail almost anywhere in the NF. I for one LOVE off-trail hiking. Almost all of mine has been done alone and before cell phones, so many people would call me crazy. (Yeah, I know Jess, they call me crazy for a lot more reasons than off-trail hiking! ) BUT, if a trail is closed, I don't think they want you in the area. They may be trying to work on the trail or they may be trying to work on an observation area, etc. I actually have gone around a sign once when they were building the Anna Ruby Falls Visitor Center. I was doing trail work that day coming up from Vogel, and I did have my uniform on. I got a sneak peak at the work being done.

Off-trail hiking can be done by larger groups. You just need to spread out and not follow each other. I have enjoyed testing my map reading skills and compass usage off-trail. Try it in an area that you know and test yourself with where you hit the trail again.

Too bad that the cache was gone, but at least you got it replaced. I agree with what the others said about taking into account the cacher that had the no find, and it is good to keep the caches close to you so you can easily check them.

My practices.

If I receive a no find on cache of mine from an inexperienced cacher, depending on which cache it is I may or may not go out and check it. If it’s one of my close ones with little or no walk like, “Snellville Stash”, “Exit the Reagan”, “Almost Stone Mountain”, or “Are you In the Loop?” I can go check in a free half hour or so. Now If I get a no find from an experienced hunter I’ll rush out soon as I can.

Ones that take a fairly decent hike to and from such as all of my Yellow river caches, “Exit the Reagan 2”, and “Nestled in the Shadows of the Mountain” I can check when I have a free hour or so.

But ones that are a good distance away may have to wait a few days. For example LazerBlazer emailed me that he could not find “Don’t Feed the Trolls”. That cache has received more No find logs for a cache that is actually still there than any I have ever had or seen. To date it has had 9 no finds in 7 months. But still it had me worried that he could not find it. Now that cache is a mystery cache and I won’t spoil the surprise but Jerry emailed me all the correct locations and pertinent information that only someone who had solved the “mystery” would know. So I got really worried about it at that point and headed out there 4 days later and was relived to find that the last person had just hidden it back VERY well!

So far I have been lucky and only had 2 caches that have actually been stolen. The first was our 3rd cache “Watch out for that... Frisbee!” It was found by a non-cacher who took the ammo box and left a note and the contents. So there was no question as to weather it was missing or not. Note read “Hello benevolent entities, we found your incredible box filled w/ goods from the quagmire. This message was just informing you of the capture.” The other was in another state (I have since wizened up and don’t place out of Towner caches). After several no finds I posted a note on the cache page saying I was planning to take a trip to see if the cache was still there but in the mean time asking if someone who had previously found it if they could check up on it. Someone did and confirmed it missing. Blah another one bit the dust…

Dang I got a little long winded there...

[This message was edited by Ramness570 on December 30, 2002 at 05:38 PM.]

quote:

---

But ones that are a good distance away may have to wait a few days. For example LazerBlazer emailed me that he could not find “Don’t Feed the Trolls”.

---

Next time you have a problem with that cache let me know and I'll check on it. I live a mile from it. You'll have to give me the coords though as I neglected to make a note of them when I found the cache. I know within a couple of hundred feet where it is but having the coords would help.

~erik~

quote:

---

Originally posted by ~erik~:

quote:

---

But ones that are a good distance away may have to wait a few days. For example LazerBlazer emailed me that he could not find “Don’t Feed the Trolls”.

---

Next time you have a problem with that cache let me know and I'll check on it. I live a mile from it. You'll have to give me the coords though as I neglected to make a note of them when I found the cache. I know within a couple of hundred feet where it is but having the coords would help.

~erik~

---

Hey thanks allot!