I have to say I am a little disappointed with...I guess, myself.

I placed a cache in a park that closes at sunset and I did not put that piece of information on the cache page. I assumed the signs that said "This Park closes at Dusk" posted at the entrance and periodically on the trail should have been enough, but you know what happens when you assume.

I have changed the page and am in the process of changing all my cache pages to reflect any Rules or Laws that may be specific to the property the cache is hidden on. I do not want to be guilty of "enticing" anyone (especially adults who should know better)to break the law/rules.

I didn't realize that the need to be first to a cache was more important than following the posted rules.

I tend to agree, Slay. Even the world famous museum, the High, is closed sometimes and it is a VERY public place. I don't know if the hours are posted there, but I can read them if they are.

Can't imagine blaming the cache owner if I get arrested for being in a closed park. Like McDonald's getting sued for hot coffee!

I can see both sides of this issue. The cache placer could reasonably expect folks to use good judgement and abide by local laws, but then, once a cacher has traveled to a cache site, and has a bad case of cache fever, it is very tempting to just go for it. I would suggest that cache placers try to advise cachers in the cache posting of any restrictions or conditions which should be known, and not just park schedules. For example, if a direct route to the cache from the nearest parking spot could be hazardous, it might be good to put that in the post and advise cachers to stay on the trail until within .xx miles of the cache. I have seen some caches where it would be good advice to not try the cache within a few days of a heavy rain (unless you have a portable bridge with you).

FWIW,
CharlieP

I should have placed the park closing information on the cache page, so I rectified that.

The suggestion about the obstacles that may be encountered is a good one, but didn't apply to this situation. I will however heed your advice in further caches that I place. Thanks CharlieP

This is the latest Cache log for The Travel Bug Depot:

quote:

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kashmir has added a log to your cache (SOUTH North Georgia Travel Bug Depot). You can visit the cache at the following link:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=58971

User comments:
Found it during lunch. Very nice wooded area. Nice cache that gets you walking in the last remaining large hardwood stand in the area. Didn't leave or take a travel bug. Took pack of cards and left small penknife.

Took pictures of me in the woods. I'll upload these later. The better pictures would have been me getting chased by Gwinnett's finest as I hopped the fence to the freeway getting back to my car, but alas I couldn't stop to take pictures then. It would have been great to get pictures of me and the two officers for the cache picture collection, but I don't think they were in a very picturesque mood right then. Maybe I'll run into them over at Pepperoni's Pizza in Duluth later in the week and can get pictures then!

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I am so frustrated with people.

This is the 3rd post like this I have received...2 from lunch Break 4# and then this one. I am very tempted to just delete these entries. They are flaunting their disreguard for the law. As if we don't have enough problems trying to win over the NPS, State Parks etc cachers (idiot-cachers) are giving the authorities reasons to say no.

If this is a joke well...It is not funny and you are an idiot. If you actually broke the law to cache, well you are an idiot and a criminal!

I have decided that this evening when I get home I will delete previous cache log! It's that simple. Brag about breaking the law - Cache log DELETED!

Simple as that.

As I said in the "found/not found" thread, it is only a find if both the hider and hunter agree. I don't see anything wrong with deleting it and not allowing them to log it ever. But if it was mine, I would send an email to the hunter and tell them, if they are going to break the law don't put that fact in the log and allow them to log it as a find provided the new log doesn't mention breaking the law. But as always it is your choice and YMMV.

We arrived at the park containing Etowah Cache and Etowah Chief and discovered that there were "no dogs allowed". Our dog is part of our caching team! We decided since it was a chilly day, to leave our dog in the car while we tracked down Etowah Cache but we almost left dissapointed.

We don't like to research a cache as in exactly where is it located and what are the rules. Part of the fun for us is discovering where the heck this thing is and how do you access it legitamitely. I wouldn't agree though that it's the cache owner's responsibility to advise of rules and such in the cache description. However, some heads up like "location locked promptly at dusk" or "no dogs allowed at this location" would be appreciated.

In slayerette's example, any responsible person would realize that part of the challenge is to figure out how you legitimately get there (and back). Breaking rules is cheating, as well as unwise if it also entails breaking laws (even minor ones). However you can't escape risk takers, irresponsible people, and just plain knuckleheads.

quote:

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Originally posted by Hostetter Family:
We arrived at the park containing Etowah Cache and Etowah Chief and discovered that there were "no dogs allowed".

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When we did those caches, I was not sure if the "No Dogs" sign applied only to the athletic fields. So since the trail was not specifically posted, we took ScooterP with us. Maybe someone who lives in the area could clear up that issue. At least part of the trail is on land administered by the Corps of Engineers for Lake Allatoona, and they usually allow dogs.

FWIW,
CharlieP

I thought that could be the case but the sign said something like "No Dogs in Park...Public Health...City of Canton..." Usually pets are merely to stay off the ball fields. This sign seemed to refer to the entire place. When we got behind the fields, and started along the river, I was sure dogs could be back there (however I saw no paw tracks), but our approach took us through that park. Well, we made it up to her on the next cache with a hike up Vineyard mountain and let her stay off her leash. She loved that trek.

Requesting an edit to the log entry or I will delete it in the morning. I'm thinking this guy is just being a jerk with a stupid sense of humor. That or just trying to annoy me. I'm less angry now that I have made a plan on how to handle it.

I had sent an email yesterday evening requesting the editing of the log entry and I got no response. As of 1:30pm today, Neither the log was changed or did I receive an email protesting. So I followed thru and deleted the cache log entry.

I really didn't want to do it. I was hoping to have some correspondence about the situation and explain my reasoning. But I needed to follow through. I am sure all heck is going to break loose and some retaliation is probably going to happen. The last thing I wanted to do was alienate a fellow cacher, but the damage is probably done. What I was trying to do was not be the owner of a cache that resulted invited illegal behavior which in turn gave geocaching a bad name.

I also realize people thought I was against those racing to be first to a cache. That couldn't be further from the truth. I am all for competition and personal goals and if being first to a cache is your goal, More power to you. It's when trying to achieve that goal laws are broken, other people get hurt or their property damaged is where I take offense. And the excuse "never underestimate what an ambitious cacher will do" or "It's just a case of cache-fever" doesn't work for me. We are supposed to be adults; We are supposed to be setting an example for those who follow. If we make excuses for those who break the law (and then let them brag about it on the site), we are accepting that behavior.
If you are going to break the law for goodness sakes don't brag about it. It is not for me to keep you from breaking the law, It is your choice whether to follow it or not.

I just won't advertise your bad choice.

No argument here, Slay.

I kinda wish we had the ability to edit the logs on our caches. Would be better than the delete and encrypt choices we have now. There's probably some technical reason why we can't though.

Well done!

See ya on the hunt!

There is no technical reason that keeps Jeremy from allowing the logs from being edited by the owner. I think he is worrying about human nature. As this case shows there is a some small precentage of hunters are putting things in logs which the majority of geocachers disapprove of. To allow the hiders to edit the logs would mean that a small precentage of cache owneres would edit the logs in a way that a majority of geocachers would disapprove of. It would be changing one problem into another.

I don't think cache owners should have the ability to edit logs submitted from finders. Buth then again, we should have the right to delete (censure) logs we deem inappropriate. Hopefully owners would attempt to contact log posters that didn't meet muster (as you did) to edit them on their own. If they don't, it's up to the owner to decide what stays and what goes.
You could always post a note yourself stating that a log was deleted (with or without mentioning the loggers handle) and give the reason why it was deleted. That may, future hunters would be aware that their logs would also be deleted if they choose not to follow your rules.

Just a penny and a half.

As I said to Slay last week...

"Moving heaven and earth to be first to a cache? Man, that is *so* last year..."

It never really was about being first it was about Breaking the Law and Bragging about it. I actually was first to a cache in Dublin GA last week. I was tickled to find it first, though I didn't intend to be first, it just happened that way. I believe the "being the first" thing up here (in Metro Atlanta Area) is more of a competition amongst fellow cachers...Which is fine. I actually like to find out who is first to a cache.
Where we used to expect bent_twiggs or ~erik~ to be first to a cache, now it's a toss-up of a few more new players (or old geezers)
We all have our own ways of competing; some like to set personal goals and reach them, some choose to be first to caches, some like to hide caches more than hunt them, some only want to do mountain caches, some want to do only hydo-caches, some like to find more caches than anyone else, etc.
As you can see there are as many reasons to cache as there are cachers and it doesn't matter why anyone does. What does matter is that we all have fun and positively promote the game. I would like to see geocaching stick around, because I'd like this to be a hobby not a fad.

[This message was edited by Slayerette on April 02, 2003 at 10:04 AM.]

In paraphrasing what has been said, some of us cache based on personal goals, some of us cache to micro explore the region, some of cache to be outside, and the list goes on. Kashmir caches for some of the reaons, but he also caches so he can try and be entertaining in his logs.

I'm partly responsible here, I kept dragging Kashmir on the hunt with me during lunch, and I finally got him hooked. On the date of his now infamous cache find with the log entry alluding to illegal parking on I-85 and the subsequent police chase, I can offer up the true story that I was driving that day and we parked in the office complex, and I was present in the woods as Kashmir went out to find the cache. I was not aware of the subsequent log entry andthe furor it created here until he showed me the (well written) email from Slayerette asking that the log entry be changed. In his new log he perhaps still wanted to push the envelope a little bit, but I think that his new log is acceptable.

As Kashmir's friend, I will say that his log was meant in fun, and having said that I completely agree with Slayerette for removing it.

I hang out with a couple of new and aspiring cachers in the Atlanta area, and I will pass along to them the standards that I read about here in these forums, and hopefully we can have less episodes like this.

Respectfully,
Bill

Hopefully we can bring this one to a close.

Thank you all for your suggestions and your advice.

quote:

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"Moving heaven and earth to be first to a cache? Man, that is *so* last year..."

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I like that.

Was it only last year? It seems like a lifetime ago that I raced to be first. Now I'm happy just to be among the first dozen - before the cache deteriorates to broken McToys.... With a social trail a blind man can follow leading to it.
(That's not directed at the eleven people who proceeded me to any particular cache, it's just the way it is.)

Maybe that's a natural thing in the life of a cache - it starts as something really challenging to find with treasure to boot. Then as more and more people log it the nature of the cache changes so it becomes something children can lead their parents to find and still discover what they consider treasure when they get there.

I'd better get back on my medication and stop philosophizing. ~erik~