quote:

GGA Members only caches

How about posting it as a mystery cache on GC.com? The cache page would then provide a link or maybe just mention that the details needed to get the actual coordinates can be found in the GGA members-only forum. The information there could be the actual coordinates, a puzzle, or whatever. It gets officially reviewed, only GGA members can find it, and finders can get their GC.com smiley.

quote:

Originally posted by WakeboardLanier:

quote:

GGA Members only caches

How about posting it as a mystery cache on GC.com? The cache page would then provide a link or maybe just mention that the details needed to get the actual coordinates can be found in the GGA members-only forum. The information there could be the actual coordinates, a puzzle, or whatever. It gets officially reviewed, only GGA members can find it, and finders can get their GC.com smiley.

Not sure, but I wouldn't think that a cache requiring someone to be a GGA member with cache info in the Members Only section would get approved.
The ALR crybabies would have a field day with that one.

Actually, it would have ended up on GC.com eventually. He was - as has always had been his Standard Operating Procedure - to let the GGA members have a crack at it first. Then he would list it.

To pass on a point of History... That was how we did it a few year ago. It was to give being a member of the GGA a little "Bonus" or head start if you will.

quote:

Originally posted by geomuse:
I do not have the benefit of having been a member since 2001. However, I did act in good faith in that I attempted to verify this account as valid,

I can accept this as a mistake, but it doesn't appear that much was checked before not only deleting a post, but an entire thread and suspending the account, of someone who has had a gga profile for seven years and a gc profile for eight years. What made it appear invalid? No where in the GGA Forums Posting Guidelines do I see where the gga profile has to match the gc profile. My gga profile doesn't match my gc profile, does that mean I should give up my gga account?

Even if the same thing was posted by a "non-member" the only instance the terms give for deleting without posting a reason is "8. In the case of a non-geocaching related commercial posting by a non-member, such a posting may be deleted with no further action." which doesn't apply in this case as it wasn't a "non-geocaching related commercial posting"

I hope that mudbug65 doesn't give up on the GGA.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenLacy:
I hope that mudbug65 doesn't give up on the GGA.

I think he's a better man than that.
Let's hope so.
We all make mistakes.

The gga profile was linked to a gc.com account that has no logs or any other activity associated with it - therefore it appeared to not be a valid geonick which, technically, it isn't (bent_twigs is the geonick, as I now know). Upon consultation with the most senior SC member available and with others being aware of the situation, I suspended the account. It has now been restored. The only reason the thread was deleted was because it was in the Member Only section.

I have duly attempted to correct this situation as well as I can, and have apologized to the individual, as well as publicly in the Members Discussion Forums.

Can the stones please quit being cast?

Robin...You have done all that you can do...
You have accepted responsibility with dignity and tried to rectify the situation with equal grace. Bravo.

It's now in Donovan's court and what he wants to do.

As for this thread... Going Forward...

Let's just try and figure a way to improve the system and not beat up on those that used the system that was in place.

quote:

Let's just try and figure a way to improve the system and not beat up on those that used the system that was in place.

Exactly, I don't mean to "throw stones" at geomuse but at the process. I work in a environment where if something goes wrong, we look at the process to see where it went wrong and what needs to be changed to prevent this problem in the future. I like that because it keeps me from making the same mistakes, I get to make brand new mistakes.

So I was serious when I asked "What made his profile invalid?" I see nothing in the "Terms of Service" that indicate a gga profile has to match any gc profile much less one with geocaches linked to it. Also this profile had had gga member status since the forums were put on Infopop and a search would show that it has been posting to the gga forums since 2002.

Of course the big question is what will be done to avoid deleting a post which violated no guildlines in the future? It should be formalized because while I am sure the current SC members will avoid this mistake, future SC members need to know what to do in like circumstances. So if a requirement to be a member of gga is that the profile names of GGA and GC need to match it needs to be stated, if it is required to log finds on GC to the GC account then that needs to be stated. Currently all the GGA About Us says is "ALL IT TAKES TO BECOME A MEMBER is to attend a monthly meeting and sign up on our Members Roster!"

Again I am throwing stones at the process and requesting changes be made to make at least this part of the process stone proof.

Allen (and all)- I am certain we will be looking at the current process, given the recent events.

Part of the reasoning behind our process is to eliminate 'sock-puppets' which, in turn, helps to minimize SPAM. Unfortunately, few processes are without flaws.

Anyone who wishes to elaborate on ideas they have in ensuring the proper qualified members receive the appropriate permissions on the forums while also ensuring the forums do not get SPAMMED are invited and encouraged to start such a discussion thread.

I feel we have tried our best to do this - as Stephanie indicated earlier in this thread, there is supposed to be a link to the GGA Forum registrant's gc.com URL. I don't know all of the history on that, but to me that sounds like a feasible and reasonable request/solution.

Had that been the case with the forum name in question on this post, believe me, I would have seen it and taken note. Trust me, I tried to find every reason not to suspend the account prior to taking action.

This was an anomoly situation, so I'm not certain the system is particularly faulty, as such - but being 'high profile' it was noticed and has caused quite a stir.

All I'm asking is that, before we seriously consider changing a process, perhaps we should explore the likeliness that a similar situation would occur in the future. While regretful, I'm not certain this one unfortunate occurrance warrants a change in the process - though, as a membership, we all have the right to make suggestions, discuss them, and arrive at healthy solutions.

quote:

as Stephanie indicated earlier in this thread, there is supposed to be a link to the GGA Forum registrant's gc.com URL

Mine doesn't have one, I was never told it had to and the registration process didn't make me put one. In fact I didn't fill out many of the profile "questions" I took it for granted they were all optional since I had attended a meeting and signed up. Also it appears that if mudbug65 had linked to gc mudbug65 (and why shouldn't he since it is a valid gc profile) the post would have still be deleted.

But if the sc thinks there is no problem with the current process and that no future sc member will ever delete a post which violated no posted Terms of Service, I'll leave it be now.

On boards I have/do moderate, I move suspect post to a non public area. This allows for discussion on the post and the ability to simply move it back if it is determined to be a valid post.

quote:

Originally posted by Asgoroth:
On boards I have/do moderate, I move suspect post to a non public area. This allows for discussion on the post and the ability to simply move it back if it is determined to be a valid post.

this board has a non public area that is for that purpose.

Allen - as you wish. However, the invitation for discussion is open. All I am suggesting is that blanket process changes are not made based on anomoly situations, which this is. An unusual post was made my a GGA member for whom an active (meaning logs made to it) gc.com account was not found. Yes, it is unfortunate that this happened. The question I think is whether or not this may likely occur in the future. If you think it would, and have a suggestion about how to avoid that happening without compromising the integrity of the current process, which attempts to eliminate or deter sock-puppet accounts, then (again) you are invited to voice your suggestions.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Asgoroth:
On boards I have/do moderate, I move suspect post to a non public area. This allows for discussion on the post and the ability to simply move it back if it is determined to be a valid post.

johnnie:
this board has a non public area that is for that purpose.

It was already in the member discussion forum - I knew of no other place to which to remove the discussion/thread. My apologies that it was deleted, but I was working with what I knew at the moment and doing the best I could.

Well since you asked. I suggest the process problem was that the posted "GGA Forums Posting Guidelines were not followed and that in the future that they be followed. I quote some of them to show why I say they were not followed:

quote:

1. First and foremost, the GGA steering committee (SC) is NOT in the censorship business. However, the SC recognized that there might be need for administrative action in extreme cases.

2. Administrative action on postings shall be scrupulously avoided except in the most egregious cases of personal attacks, profanity, perceived attempts at exploitation, inducements to participate in illegal activity, blatantly commercial postings by non-members, and the like.

The posting in question did not meet any of the requirements for administrative action.

quote:

4. Upon an affirmative vote, a steering committee member shall:

a) Cause a forum for deleted posting content (Deleted Content Forum) to be created in the Private Forum area. This area is accessible to GGA members through the use of a password.

b) Copy the content of the problem posting to the deleted content forum. The screen name of the poster shall be included here as well.

c) Replace the text in the problem posting with a message indicating why it has been moved.

The "Deleted Content Forum" wasn't created and the post was not moved to it, the post wasn't edited to indicate why it was moved.

quote:

8. In the case of a non-geocaching related commercial posting by a non-member, such a posting may be deleted with no further action.

This gives three conditions that all have to be met before there will deletion without notice. The post in question did not meet any of these, so even if it was thought to be posted by sock puppet the guild lines were not met to delete the posting.

So I think the guild lines if followed will deter spam, as for sock puppet accounts the New York Times Article gives the definition of sock puppet as

quote:

the act of creating a fake online identity to praise, defend or create the illusion of support for one’s self, allies or company.

This is also is pretty much the definition I use except I include using an alternate account to flame or troll other users, but none of this happened on this posting.

So to me it looks like the failure in process was the "Posting Guidelines" were not reviewed and followed and that in the future they should be reviewed before post deletion.

People really?

The active members of the SC work hard at this thankless job to put together events and activities that are fun for you. It was a mistake and we are human. Yes the guidelines were not followed to the letter in this instance, I can pretty much guarantee you that will never happen again with this SC.

Geomuse admitted that she jumped the gun and suspended mudbug65 and deleted the thread too quickly and without input from the rest of the available SC members. She and 1 other SC member decided that was a good course of action.

None of the 4 active SC member knew who mudbug65/bent_twigs was or his intention with that thread. In fact there was not even any SC discussion about him or the thread until now.

MariettaGecko and I had no idea what was going on until this morning after it had all happened. mtn-man probably still does not know what is going on, if he does he has not said anything to us.

Geomuse and the SC have apologized and has corrected the error. mudbug65 has been reinstated and he is welcome to re-post the thread.

Why drag this on and on and on?
How about going to vote on some great picture for the calendar instead.....

Good enuff for me ... and hopefully good enuff for the rest.

As far as I am concerned ... Case Closed

Thank you!

Wow....looks like a lot of politics on the steering committee. Looks like a volunteer needs to be thick skinned and be able to take a lot of stinky stuff tossed their way.

quote:

People really?

The active members of the SC work hard at this thankless job to put together events and activities that are fun for you.

Really yourself!!

Thankless my hind-end! I am sick of hearing the word thankless, That word shows up here way to much.
To start, lets read the logs on the GGA event pages, you will find a great number of logs saying thanks
to the ones that put the meeting together. I have heard numbers of people in person at the meetings
come up and thank the S/C for a job well done. When I was on the S/C I got thanks all the time, and still
do as a member for things that I do as a member.

So in case you missed yours, I would to thank you for all you do to help the GGA. It is hard, and appreeciated