I just noticed several geocaches archived with a note "archived due to changes in rules for state owned WMA". Does anyone know what that is about? What the new rules are?

Thinking about going to the Sept GGA meet there AllIen? I saw that too and checked some. It's not really a change. State managed WMAs (like at Charlie Eliott) are under the same rules as State Parks as far as geocaches are concerned. WMAs on USFS property are under the rules and guidelnes as negotiated by the GGA and the USFS.

Maybe rustyg will chime in to clarify it if I'm off the wall on this.

This issue was discussed on this board about a year ago

http://ggaonline.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9426060551/m/62...761014703#4761014703

A WMA is much different from a state park, e.g., they do not allow hunting in state parks. My thought is that if activities like hunting, hiking, and cutting timber are allowed, why not geocaching?

At least some State Parks allow hunting, for example Tallulah Gorge State Park see its page, then search for "Hunting". It isn't the entire park of course. In fact my Authorized Tallulah Gorge Cache is in the area which allows hunting.

After reading the comments from yesterday's GGA meeting, I sorta caught the gist of rustyg's WMA rule change presentation but I'd appreciate it if someone would spell out exactly what was said.

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After reading the comments from yesterday's GGA meeting, I sorta caught the gist of rustyg's WMA rule change presentation but I'd appreciate it if someone would spell out exactly what was said.

I'll get the meeting minutes together later this week. The gist of what Rusty said was that geocaching is currently not approved in State owned WMAs. WMAs in the Chattahoochee National Forest, and any others not state owned, are still open to our sport.

The consensus at the meeting was that we should respectfully write TPTB and lobby for a reversal of the decision, as it was apparently made without public comment. I'll be posting contact info in my meeting notes. Please keep in mind that Rusty is a geocacher, and an advocate for our rights, so don't shoot the messenger, as they say.

~erik~

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we should respectfully write TPTB and lobby for a reversal of the decision

Absolutely right. However, we must address the right people.

The State Parks & Recreation Division and the Wildlife Resources Division (the outfit that rustyg is with and whose decision he discussed at the meeting) are both subordinate to the Department of Natural Resources. The DNR was the source of the ban in State Parks (as a result of State Park concerns). It is logical that a decision made at "higher headquarters" would apply to all subordinate divisions & sections.

Think of it this way. Say you and a peer reported to the same boss and your peer presented something to that boss and the boss made a decision. You later are considering what is essentially the same thing and are aware of your boss' earlier decision. Would you then implement policy that is contradictory to your boss' earlier decision? I don't think so for if you did he/she would probably no longer be your boss as you would be looking for a new job.

That's the situation we see here. The WRD couldn't have made any other decision than the one that was made.

Having said all that, what we should be doing is addressing the issue with the Department of Natural Resources itself.

One thing we could do is to draft a letter and get GGA member input. Once finalized we spend a couple/three months getting signatures. Then, get an appointment with the Chief of DNR (or a Deputy) and present the letter to him/her.

Rustyg went way out on a limb for us geocachers and we owe him a debt of gratitude. We need to think clearly and take precise steps in our quest to get geocaching allowed - on all state property with the local manager being the approver.

I was in Utah this summer and as we arrived at Antelope Island State Park (which is an island in the Great Salt Lake), they handed us a ream of material to use while we were visiting the Park. One of the information pieces they gave us was on Geocaching, complete with information on the caches located in the park.

So at least one other state promotes Geocaching in its state parks rather than restricting it. It might be a good idea if we could get a survey of how many states do allow Geocaching in these areas. The fact that other states allow Geocaching, won't be despositive with the DNR, obviously, but at the same time, what other states do is not completely irrelevant to the bureaucratic mindset either. Most bureaucrats didn't get where they are by taking risks and the fact that other states allow it may allow them to see it as less of a risk.

Georgia State Parks do allow geocaching. You just have to get approval from the Park Manager. It is the state run WMA that apparently don't.

Actually, as I understood it, Geocaching is not permitted unless allowed by the Park Manager. The presumption is that it is not permitted, rather than permitted.

The state does allow caches but has specific rules that the cache container be in the park office with a lock on it. The key or combo can be hidden somewhere in the park; one then has to visit the park office to claim the prize (all of this coordinated with the park's manager). See my "Healing Waters" cache as an example of a cache in a state park that adheres strictly to the guidelines.

Those caches placed in parks otherwise but with the park's manager's approval are not in compliance with the state guidelines. Those park managers have stuck their necks out a bit, but if the park management changes, the cache could be gone quite quickly.

Well when I first talked with the Park Manager of Tallulah Gorge State Park, he told me that he had gotten a memo with the rules from DNR and the way that he read them that it was up to his discretion if there was a geocache in the park, and if the box was in the "woods" or the office. Now I haven't seen the actual document. He did mention that once he left it would be up to the new manager if the geocache could stay in park at all or in the woods. Luckily when the new manager came, I talked to him and he was fine with it in the park and in the woods.

So I don't know how much interpretation he did with the memo versus what it actually said.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenLacy:
Well when I first talked with the Park Manager of Tallulah Gorge State Park, he told me that he had gotten a memo with the rules from DNR and the way that he read them that it was up to his discretion if there was a geocache in the park, and if the box was in the "woods" or the office.

That is what I have been told the rules were also, Allen.

More info about the DNR here.

http://www.gadnr.org/

The WMA's are under the Wildlife Division and the parks are under the Parks division so I don't think that all the same rules apply to both. The parks are mostly about picnicing, camping, and scenic and historical sites whereas the WMA's are almost entirely about hunting. But the same 18 member board is over all Divisions of the DNR.

The DNR ranger at the Dawson Forest WMA knows there are geocaches in the WMA. He did not say anything about it when MapReader and I talked to him back in May.

One of the keys to these rules is that they do not apply to WMA's that are not on state owned land....that exludes national forests and leased land from these rules.

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Originally posted by Tarvol:
One of the keys to these rules is that they do not apply to WMA's that are not on state owned land....that exludes national forests and leased land from these rules.

Hmmm, then we need to know which ones are leased. I think a lot of the WMA's are on leased land. I know the Dawson Forest WMA land is owned by the City of Atlanta and I think the Pine Log WMA land is owned by a timber company out of Cartersville. It seems odd that the DNR Wildlife Division would not apply the same rules to leased land, but then it may be a legal issue.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CharlieP,

It was stated at the meeting that the reasoning was the land they own was purchased with fees from hunting and fishing licenses. It really has nothing to do with safety. They still allow hiking and biking....they just don't know how to get rid of them now. There is certainly no logic their reasoning as it lacks reason.

Tombstone?

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Originally posted by AllenLacy:
Tombstone?

Could we have one of them made in memory of the Forums?